Ohio lethal injection takes 2 hours, 10 tries

05-26-2007, 01:25 PM

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/LAW/05/2....ap/index.html

Capitol punishment is barbaric and just makes murderers of us all.

wolf · 05-26-2007, 03:44 PM

Executions get botched every now and again.

There weren't "ten tries" to execute him ... it took ten attempts to establish an IV line. BIG difference. Guy was a junkie, and they couldn't get a decent vein. Might be a good idea to consider a PICC instead of just an IV, but that's a surgical procedure and requires that an xray be taken to establish correct placement of the line.

Would have been nice had the fellow thought murder was barbaric before he beat and killed his cellmate in an argument over a chess game.

Undertoad · 05-26-2007, 03:47 PM

I'm against capital punishment but on the other hand, waah waaaah, dey hurt da wittle murdewer, waah. Was there a comfy cushion for his ass while they tried to find a vein?

lizzymahoney · 05-26-2007, 04:50 PM

Clarification: this man was not said to be an intravenous drug user. That reference was to the previous 'botched' execution of another prisoner where they could not establish an IV line.

This man was larger than usual and that was the reason the line was difficult to establish.

Also consider that most health professionals accustomed to putting in IVs would not participate in an execution. Totally my guess here, but it probably is done by a military trained field medic rather than a practicing medical specialist. There would have to be a doctor to certify the death and oversee the injections, but the doc is nowhere near the condemned man. That person is in a separate room.

A PICC is probably too invasive, being an order of magnitude more involved than a simple IV lock.

Can you tell I'm in a death penalty state? ugh.

Trilby · 05-26-2007, 04:55 PM

what is so strange is that anyone cares that a PICC is too invasive. Dude, the guy is toast---who cares if its invasive?? He's not going to die of an infection.

I have very mixed feelings about the death penalty. I always feel bad for the person being executed and then I read what they did to their victim(s) and wonder what took the state so long to ice them. It's one of "those" issues.

wolf · 05-26-2007, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lizzymahoney

Clarification: this man was not said to be an intravenous drug user. That reference was to the previous 'botched' execution of another prisoner where they could not establish an IV line.

This man was larger than usual and that was the reason the line was difficult to establish.

I misread the article. Thanks for pointing this out. Even so, 265 pounds is not that fat.

I would doubt that some sort of a field medic, whether military or paramedic, was the one to establish an IV line.

Rule of thumb ... doctor = 10 tries, no starts.
Medic = 1 try, one start, while in the back of an ambulance doing 45 mph over potholes, with lots of turns. There was a line in an episode of Saved that made me laugh, because it's so true ... "Give me 10 seconds of smooth," because that's really all they need.

busterb · 05-26-2007, 06:04 PM

At VA I've poked till I say that's it. Go get an IV nurse. I try to let them have 3 shots, but not if they miss by inches.

piercehawkeye45 · 05-26-2007, 09:38 PM

I am against capital punishment but the way we run prisons today is very inefficient.

Manuel labor and community service is much better for punishment and they put something back to the community instead of just taking more in the form of taxes.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-27-2007, 12:03 AM

It could be easily avoided, along with the expense, by just stoning them. Stones are reusable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Capitol punishment is barbaric and just makes murderers of us all.

No, not murders, killers.

Beestie · 05-27-2007, 01:53 AM

Ten tries?

Just shove the damn needle into his aorta.

Ten tries. Scoff.

Clodfobble · 05-27-2007, 03:42 PM

It usually takes three tries for me. I have tiny veins that "like to roll," apparently. My record is six.

TheMercenary · 05-27-2007, 04:54 PM

I fully support it. Fast track em...

xoxoxoBruce · 05-27-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

It usually takes three tries for me. I have tiny veins that "like to roll," apparently. My record is six.

Ah Ha. I knew you were a slippery devil.

lizzymahoney · 05-27-2007, 07:29 PM

<sigh> Okay, for those of us who don't understand the protocols in a lethal injection execution, the wikipedia article is pretty basic. Even gives a line about why the needles used are sterile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection

It's not like people haven't thought about these things before. It is a very carefully considered and designed system that does not thoroughly please anyone.

Pro or con, any US execution will have to withstand scrutiny for any cruel and unusual punishment. We are currently not in a police state. These are our basic rights here. Yours and mine as well as the condemned.

You may not like that the prisoner is guaranteed an expeditious end, but understand there are innocent but interested people who MUST be witness to the execution. There will be a member of the press from the county where the crimes were commited and one from the county where the trial was held, both to testify that justice was done. There will be family and friends of the condemned as well as family and friends of the victims. Certain dignitaries will be included to represent both sides of the political issue of execution, as well as some interested parties that have previously petitioned to observe this particular execution. I think the only people that have to be there are the one or two members of the press and an observing physician.

Ten sticks would not be an unusual number for a large person with the layers of subcutaneous fat that can easily be acquired on the Death Row diet and exercise regimen.

There are two sites: bilateral arms. Only one arm? Then most likely a leg will be the back up site. They have to have a back up site to proceed.

Most licensed or certified nurses of any level, doctors of any degree or field, Physician's Assistants, etc., will refuse to participate in an execution. One, it's gross. Two, it's a very touchy subject. Three, the chamber is a long ways from civilization usually, often an hour or more drive from the nearest sizable city. Four, the job does not pay well. It's not specifically against most standards of practice, but is ethically questionable. What the prison is often seeking for a job candidate is someone who is willing to risk career and is having a hard time finding other employment. Not the case with the jobs I've mentioned. The doctor observing is on retainer and does not have to get dirty by actually doing any of the things that bring about death. Doc is only there to observe, then listen to the heart and sign the death certificate.

The person inserting the cannulas will be a prison employee, not a jobber like the doc. Usually male, usually accustomed to working with Death Row inmates, and he could possibly be the prison nurse. This person would have to be vetted by the facility. It would not be someone hired for the day. Anyone who is not keeping up with IV skills could have problems when performing under close scrutiny.

I don't have a stake in this. I have a philosophical interest. I am a little more acquainted with Death Row routines and executions because I have an acquaintance on Death Row and an ex who will witness that execution as an impartial member of the press.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-27-2007, 07:51 PM

Quote:

It is a very carefully considered and designed system that does not thoroughly please anyone.

YES, that's the American way...whatta country.

05-26-2007, 01:25 PM	#1
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Ohio lethal injection takes 2 hours, 10 tries http://edition.cnn.com/2007/LAW/05/2....ap/index.html Capitol punishment is barbaric and just makes murderers of us all.

05-26-2007, 03:44 PM	#2
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Executions get botched every now and again. There weren't "ten tries" to execute him ... it took ten attempts to establish an IV line. BIG difference. Guy was a junkie, and they couldn't get a decent vein. Might be a good idea to consider a PICC instead of just an IV, but that's a surgical procedure and requires that an xray be taken to establish correct placement of the line. Would have been nice had the fellow thought murder was barbaric before he beat and killed his cellmate in an argument over a chess game. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

05-26-2007, 04:55 PM	#5
Trilby Slattern of the Swail Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 15,654	what is so strange is that anyone cares that a PICC is too invasive. Dude, the guy is toast---who cares if its invasive?? He's not going to die of an infection. I have very mixed feelings about the death penalty. I always feel bad for the person being executed and then I read what they did to their victim(s) and wonder what took the state so long to ice them. It's one of "those" issues. __________________ In Barrie's play and novel, the roles of fairies are brief: they are allies to the Lost Boys, the source of fairy dust and ...They are portrayed as dangerous, whimsical and extremely clever but quite hedonistic. "Shall I give you a kiss?" Peter asked and, jerking an acorn button off his coat, solemnly presented it to her. —James Barrie Wimminfolk they be tricksy. - ZenGum

05-26-2007, 06:04 PM	#7
busterb NSABFD Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: MS. usa Posts: 3,908	At VA I've poked till I say that's it. Go get an IV nurse. I try to let them have 3 shots, but not if they miss by inches. __________________ I've haven't left very deep footprints in the sands of time. But, boy I've left a bunch.

05-27-2007, 01:53 AM	#10
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	Ten tries? Just shove the damn needle into his aorta. Ten tries. Scoff. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

05-26-2007, 03:47 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I'm against capital punishment but on the other hand, waah waaaah, dey hurt da wittle murdewer, waah. Was there a comfy cushion for his ass while they tried to find a vein?

05-26-2007, 04:50 PM	#4
lizzymahoney Major Inhabitant Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 124	Clarification: this man was not said to be an intravenous drug user. That reference was to the previous 'botched' execution of another prisoner where they could not establish an IV line. This man was larger than usual and that was the reason the line was difficult to establish. Also consider that most health professionals accustomed to putting in IVs would not participate in an execution. Totally my guess here, but it probably is done by a military trained field medic rather than a practicing medical specialist. There would have to be a doctor to certify the death and oversee the injections, but the doc is nowhere near the condemned man. That person is in a separate room. A PICC is probably too invasive, being an order of magnitude more involved than a simple IV lock. Can you tell I'm in a death penalty state? ugh.

05-26-2007, 09:38 PM	#8
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I am against capital punishment but the way we run prisons today is very inefficient. Manuel labor and community service is much better for punishment and they put something back to the community instead of just taking more in the form of taxes.

05-27-2007, 03:42 PM	#11
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	It usually takes three tries for me. I have tiny veins that "like to roll," apparently. My record is six.

05-27-2007, 04:54 PM	#12
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	I fully support it. Fast track em... __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

05-27-2007, 07:29 PM	#14
lizzymahoney Major Inhabitant Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 124	<sigh> Okay, for those of us who don't understand the protocols in a lethal injection execution, the wikipedia article is pretty basic. Even gives a line about why the needles used are sterile. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection It's not like people haven't thought about these things before. It is a very carefully considered and designed system that does not thoroughly please anyone. Pro or con, any US execution will have to withstand scrutiny for any cruel and unusual punishment. We are currently not in a police state. These are our basic rights here. Yours and mine as well as the condemned. You may not like that the prisoner is guaranteed an expeditious end, but understand there are innocent but interested people who MUST be witness to the execution. There will be a member of the press from the county where the crimes were commited and one from the county where the trial was held, both to testify that justice was done. There will be family and friends of the condemned as well as family and friends of the victims. Certain dignitaries will be included to represent both sides of the political issue of execution, as well as some interested parties that have previously petitioned to observe this particular execution. I think the only people that have to be there are the one or two members of the press and an observing physician. Ten sticks would not be an unusual number for a large person with the layers of subcutaneous fat that can easily be acquired on the Death Row diet and exercise regimen. There are two sites: bilateral arms. Only one arm? Then most likely a leg will be the back up site. They have to have a back up site to proceed. Most licensed or certified nurses of any level, doctors of any degree or field, Physician's Assistants, etc., will refuse to participate in an execution. One, it's gross. Two, it's a very touchy subject. Three, the chamber is a long ways from civilization usually, often an hour or more drive from the nearest sizable city. Four, the job does not pay well. It's not specifically against most standards of practice, but is ethically questionable. What the prison is often seeking for a job candidate is someone who is willing to risk career and is having a hard time finding other employment. Not the case with the jobs I've mentioned. The doctor observing is on retainer and does not have to get dirty by actually doing any of the things that bring about death. Doc is only there to observe, then listen to the heart and sign the death certificate. The person inserting the cannulas will be a prison employee, not a jobber like the doc. Usually male, usually accustomed to working with Death Row inmates, and he could possibly be the prison nurse. This person would have to be vetted by the facility. It would not be someone hired for the day. Anyone who is not keeping up with IV skills could have problems when performing under close scrutiny. I don't have a stake in this. I have a philosophical interest. I am a little more acquainted with Death Row routines and executions because I have an acquaintance on Death Row and an ex who will witness that execution as an impartial member of the press.

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