frightening flight experience - Page 6

evansk7 · 07-23-2004, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You folks with your incredible sense of prescience should work for airport security. I know I could never work out the safety of an otherwise odd-looking situation until I had all the facts in hand, but you folks seem to figure it out within a few paragraphs. That's some amazing work.

My problem with airport security is that they don't seem to figure it out until 3 years later with the aid of a congressional investigation.

Airport security, and in fact any kind of security designed to protect the safety of a populace and its state, should not be the lowest paid job in the whole wide world, and should not attract the contempt of those it encounters.

I've lost count of the number of times I've been in an airport in the UK and the US and been "questioned" by someone who can barely string together three words of English (not because they're foreign, just because they're uneducated). And I've lost count of the number of times I've heard people around me berating security staff for being idiots, inconveniencing them, delaying them "unnecessarily" or being invasive.

I wonder which came first; our desire to cut costs so we can pay a high-school drop-out $2.40/hour to sleep while scanning bags or our desire to belittle those around us performing menial yet necessary jobs.

And I wonder if we'll ever realise that perhaps, in security as in the rest of the world, you get what you pay for.

Carbonated_Brains · 07-23-2004, 11:22 AM

I could be wrong, but after 20 minutes of thinking I'm pretty sure I detected a whisp of sarcasm in UT's post.

jane_says · 07-23-2004, 12:47 PM

I never get to Anne Coulter and get pissed. If I get to Anne Coulter being listed as a reference, I get ready to grin, because it's certain that what I'm reading is a parody, and the punchline is just ahead. I read this article several times (yes, all the way through) because I just knew I had missed the joke. Coulter's every bit the reliable sorce that Rush Limbaugh is. She's nothing but a right-wing joke, on par with Pat Robertson, and everyone here is aware of that.

I'd like to read an independent account of this by one of the marshalls or flight attendants. People who deal with the flying public on a daily basis are bound to have a more reasonable view than this woman. If not, we're destined to turn all areas surrounding the U.S. into giant Gitmos where these fourteen innocents and others who look like them can be "locked up in chains"

until our superior military and legislative minds can decide how to dispose of them.

lookout123 · 07-23-2004, 01:05 PM

anne coulter is a flame throwing entertainer... get over it. discount her all you want, but ignoring what another person says or reports just because they happen to find some value in coulter is foolish.

one of my friend's here in phoenix happens to think Mike Newcomb* is a brilliant political mind, and quotes him often. i think he is an ass, but i don't discount what my friend says just because he finds value in the ramblings of an ass.

*an extremely liberal talk show host who has gone so far as to say that bush may have helped the towers come down some how. about as fair and reasonable as hannity, just louder.

jane_says · 07-23-2004, 01:18 PM

I won't get over the fact that we are treating this article like serious journalism. If that's the case, cites must come from reliable sources, and Anne Coulter is anything but. That's like getting cites about automobile safety from the guy who runs the demolition derby at the fair.

wolf · 07-23-2004, 01:23 PM

He probably knows more about automobile construction and safety than most people. It's worth a listen.

lookout123 · 07-23-2004, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

He probably knows more about automobile construction and safety than most people. It's worth a listen.

Newcomb? he is just a 3 hour belligerent political rant. on most days he makes al franken look like a bush supporter.

jane_says · 07-23-2004, 01:31 PM

I think he meant the demolition derby guy...

Carbonated_Brains · 07-23-2004, 01:42 PM

I want to see the charges laid against the flight attendant for revealing the presence of air marshals on an aircraft.

Then I'll believe her whole account.

jane_says · 07-23-2004, 02:10 PM

You know, I thought of that too. I imagined that old Eddie Murphy skit on SNL where he has makeup applied to appear white and goes about his business as a white man, finding that when blacks leave any given area, like the subway, a party starts immediately. He's given bank loans without credit hsitory or referneces, etc. "Shh! Don't tell anyone who's not lily-white, but I'm going to impart some secret information to you about our safety situation. Those dirty old darkies over there aren't being as outgoing and friendly and we'd like. They're acting weird and not speaking English. So just for you, because we're in a Special Club, here's some information that might ease your troubled little mind."

Then I imagined those fourteen guys standing around with their instruments before they got on board, saying, "You know what would be funny, guys? Why don't we walk around a lot on the plane. Back and forth to the shitter, right? I'll carry this Mickey Dees' bag around, and then you poke around in your carry on a couple of times. For a grand finale, Ali, you flip through the prayer book a coupla times and try to look pious."

lookout123 · 07-23-2004, 02:22 PM

you're right jane. absolutely right. having air marshalls watching those 14 syrians was nothing but racist.
it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that 19 middle-eastern men flew 4 commercial aircraft into buildings and the ground with innocent civilians as their victims.
it has nothing to do with the fact that the intel currently available says that there is likely to be another attempt at hijacking a plane.
it has nothing to do with the fact that the people who have stated they intend to cause further death and destruction on american soil happen to be middle eastern men.
it has nothing to do with the fact that IF these 14 men were not truly musicians, but were hijackers who got control of the plane and used it as a weapon, people would be screaming "why didn't we do more" "you should have known..."
it has nothing to do with any of these points. you are so right jane. thank you for your wisdom.

Undertoad · 07-23-2004, 02:15 PM

You've got it all figured out, dontcha jane? Wouldn't it be funny if you were on the flight where they made that decision? You'd know exactly what was going on... it would be a laugh riot to you.

Quick question on the Coulter quote. IIRC it was made to point out the policy of not questionning more than 2 arabic people per flight. A) Do you believe this is not the policy or effect of the policy? and B) Are you in agreement with it (and if so, what the fuck?)

jane_says · 07-23-2004, 02:40 PM

I don't understand what "decision" you mean.

As for the policy, I didn't write it. Like I said before, if that's the case, surely a better source than Anne Coulter could have been found for it, no? As I also said before, we have zero terrorist incidents as a result of the policy. You know the old adage that begins "if it ain't broke..."

When we become so freaked out over everyone who doesn't look and act exactly the way we do that people are crying on an airplane over the mere prescence of someone who fits their image of a terrorist, then yes, that's racism. Those Middle Eastern men were not the bad guys. They committed no crime. When people are scrutinized more closely for what they might do, even when there's zero evidence, because of the way they look, that's racism. "IF" won't work in this case. We don't arrest people or harass them because of things they haven't done yet. I might be statistically more likely to be able to buy crack from a young black man in the ghetto, but that doesn't mean we should arrest them all. Middle class white guys who act strange at work might be more likely to be serial killers, but that doesn't mean we get to detain them until we're sure they're not. Uneducated, poor single mothers might beat their children more often, but that doesn't mean they should be questioned by the grocery store cashier when they use their food stamps.

And no, I don't have everything figured out, not do I claim to. But I do know that when we start giving people grief for making some of us uncomfortable merely by being here, it's a short ride to holding people indefinitely without legal counsel and without charge, to having our private phone conversations tapped by the government, ad nausem. And that would be quite a leap of logic if it hadn't already started.

Carbonated_Brains · 07-23-2004, 02:44 PM

Doesn't the Cellar have any arab members?

Speak up!

I'm curious what their stance is on all of this.

vsp · 07-23-2004, 02:53 PM

The moral of the story is "If you're a Brown Person, ride Amtrak so that White America can relax when flying."

07-23-2004, 01:05 PM	#4
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	anne coulter is a flame throwing entertainer... get over it. discount her all you want, but ignoring what another person says or reports just because they happen to find some value in coulter is foolish. one of my friend's here in phoenix happens to think Mike Newcomb* is a brilliant political mind, and quotes him often. i think he is an ass, but i don't discount what my friend says just because he finds value in the ramblings of an ass. *an extremely liberal talk show host who has gone so far as to say that bush may have helped the towers come down some how. about as fair and reasonable as hannity, just louder. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-23-2004, 01:23 PM	#6
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	He probably knows more about automobile construction and safety than most people. It's worth a listen. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

07-23-2004, 02:22 PM	#11
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	you're right jane. absolutely right. having air marshalls watching those 14 syrians was nothing but racist. it has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that 19 middle-eastern men flew 4 commercial aircraft into buildings and the ground with innocent civilians as their victims. it has nothing to do with the fact that the intel currently available says that there is likely to be another attempt at hijacking a plane. it has nothing to do with the fact that the people who have stated they intend to cause further death and destruction on american soil happen to be middle eastern men. it has nothing to do with the fact that IF these 14 men were not truly musicians, but were hijackers who got control of the plane and used it as a weapon, people would be screaming "why didn't we do more" "you should have known..." it has nothing to do with any of these points. you are so right jane. thank you for your wisdom. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

07-23-2004, 11:22 AM	#2
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	I could be wrong, but after 20 minutes of thinking I'm pretty sure I detected a whisp of sarcasm in UT's post.

07-23-2004, 12:47 PM	#3
jane_says Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW VA Posts: 200	I never get to Anne Coulter and get pissed. If I get to Anne Coulter being listed as a reference, I get ready to grin, because it's certain that what I'm reading is a parody, and the punchline is just ahead. I read this article several times (yes, all the way through) because I just knew I had missed the joke. Coulter's every bit the reliable sorce that Rush Limbaugh is. She's nothing but a right-wing joke, on par with Pat Robertson, and everyone here is aware of that. I'd like to read an independent account of this by one of the marshalls or flight attendants. People who deal with the flying public on a daily basis are bound to have a more reasonable view than this woman. If not, we're destined to turn all areas surrounding the U.S. into giant Gitmos where these fourteen innocents and others who look like them can be "locked up in chains" until our superior military and legislative minds can decide how to dispose of them.

07-23-2004, 01:18 PM	#5
jane_says Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW VA Posts: 200	I won't get over the fact that we are treating this article like serious journalism. If that's the case, cites must come from reliable sources, and Anne Coulter is anything but. That's like getting cites about automobile safety from the guy who runs the demolition derby at the fair.

07-23-2004, 01:31 PM	#8
jane_says Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW VA Posts: 200	I think he meant the demolition derby guy...

07-23-2004, 01:42 PM	#9
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	I want to see the charges laid against the flight attendant for revealing the presence of air marshals on an aircraft. Then I'll believe her whole account.

07-23-2004, 02:10 PM	#10
jane_says Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW VA Posts: 200	You know, I thought of that too. I imagined that old Eddie Murphy skit on SNL where he has makeup applied to appear white and goes about his business as a white man, finding that when blacks leave any given area, like the subway, a party starts immediately. He's given bank loans without credit hsitory or referneces, etc. "Shh! Don't tell anyone who's not lily-white, but I'm going to impart some secret information to you about our safety situation. Those dirty old darkies over there aren't being as outgoing and friendly and we'd like. They're acting weird and not speaking English. So just for you, because we're in a Special Club, here's some information that might ease your troubled little mind." Then I imagined those fourteen guys standing around with their instruments before they got on board, saying, "You know what would be funny, guys? Why don't we walk around a lot on the plane. Back and forth to the shitter, right? I'll carry this Mickey Dees' bag around, and then you poke around in your carry on a couple of times. For a grand finale, Ali, you flip through the prayer book a coupla times and try to look pious."

07-23-2004, 02:15 PM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	You've got it all figured out, dontcha jane? Wouldn't it be funny if you were on the flight where they made that decision? You'd know exactly what was going on... it would be a laugh riot to you. Quick question on the Coulter quote. IIRC it was made to point out the policy of not questionning more than 2 arabic people per flight. A) Do you believe this is not the policy or effect of the policy? and B) Are you in agreement with it (and if so, what the fuck?)

07-23-2004, 02:40 PM	#13
jane_says Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: SW VA Posts: 200	I don't understand what "decision" you mean. As for the policy, I didn't write it. Like I said before, if that's the case, surely a better source than Anne Coulter could have been found for it, no? As I also said before, we have zero terrorist incidents as a result of the policy. You know the old adage that begins "if it ain't broke..." When we become so freaked out over everyone who doesn't look and act exactly the way we do that people are crying on an airplane over the mere prescence of someone who fits their image of a terrorist, then yes, that's racism. Those Middle Eastern men were not the bad guys. They committed no crime. When people are scrutinized more closely for what they might do, even when there's zero evidence, because of the way they look, that's racism. "IF" won't work in this case. We don't arrest people or harass them because of things they haven't done yet. I might be statistically more likely to be able to buy crack from a young black man in the ghetto, but that doesn't mean we should arrest them all. Middle class white guys who act strange at work might be more likely to be serial killers, but that doesn't mean we get to detain them until we're sure they're not. Uneducated, poor single mothers might beat their children more often, but that doesn't mean they should be questioned by the grocery store cashier when they use their food stamps. And no, I don't have everything figured out, not do I claim to. But I do know that when we start giving people grief for making some of us uncomfortable merely by being here, it's a short ride to holding people indefinitely without legal counsel and without charge, to having our private phone conversations tapped by the government, ad nausem. And that would be quite a leap of logic if it hadn't already started.

07-23-2004, 02:44 PM	#14
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	Doesn't the Cellar have any arab members? Speak up! I'm curious what their stance is on all of this.

07-23-2004, 02:53 PM	#15
vsp Syndrome of a Down Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: West Chester Posts: 1,367	The moral of the story is "If you're a Brown Person, ride Amtrak so that White America can relax when flying."

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