93 Year Old WWII Vet Freezes to Death at Home... - Page 6

piercehawkeye45 · 01-28-2009, 11:50 PM

Hmm......thinking about this again.....I really don't think this could ever happen near Oakland.

Beestie · 01-29-2009, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

It should be against the law for a utility to pull the plug on a customer for unpaid bills if the temperature is below freezing. Cut him off in the spring.

They didn't pull the plug. They installed a device at the meter which cuts the power off if the usage exceeds a certain rate. The resident is able to go to the device and turn it back on immediately - just like a breaker. Apparently, there were 61 such devices in service at the time Mr. Schur died. All 61 have subsequently been removed.

Also interesting is that the Michigan Public Service Commission does not allow electric service to be disconnected at all between Nov 1 and April 1 for any reason. However, municipal utility companies are not subject to this regulation. Perhaps that will change now.

While this is indeed tragic, I think the lynch mob mentality being directed at the power company is a bit over the top.

classicman · 01-29-2009, 09:00 AM

I agree. I don't think any of us really have all the facts her, but it appears as if something went terribly wrong and finding out the truth now will be very difficult as everyone will now be in CYA mode.

Sundae · 01-29-2009, 09:30 AM

I'm sure I read earlier that his wife had died and they had had no children.
So the closest relatives are likely to be nieces/ nephews, who would likely be 60+ themselves, more likely older. And if either or both were an only child (less common 93 years ago of course) they may not even have had that.

It's a horrible thing to have happened, but given that he is supposed to have left a wad of cash out ready to pay the bill it seems just an unhappy chain of events.

Undertoad · 02-05-2009, 10:05 AM

It turns out he had $600,000 in assets, which he has left to an area hospital.

lookout123 · 02-05-2009, 10:08 AM

and there you have it. the old man died of his own stupidity.

TheMercenary · 02-05-2009, 10:10 AM

And he left the CEO of the hospital a nest egg. Nice.

classicman · 02-05-2009, 02:19 PM

I wonder what the assets were - could have been just the house and somme life insurance - who knows? I agree with lookout to a degree in that he was either stupid, stubborn, or had Alzheimers...

Sundae · 02-06-2009, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

and there you have it. the old man died of his own stupidity.

No really fair.

He was 93 years of age.
Both forgetfulness and fear of going out in adverse conditions are the norm at that age.

Pico and ME · 02-06-2009, 08:55 AM

Not only not fair, but cold and heartless too.

OnyxCougar · 02-06-2009, 09:05 AM

I don't think dementia played a part in this, considering he was ready to pay the bill with the money on the table and paperclipped to it. He knew the bill was due.

My question is why did he let it get so far behind as to let it get shut off in the first place? He found a way to get out to get groceries (or if the grocery store delievered, he at least had contact with someone...via phone or regular delivery service.

The bill should have been paid on time. I don't feel sorry for him. He lived a long life, and served our country, and I hope he's in the place of his belief system that he wanted to be. But I'm *not* pissed at the utility. At all. Not even a little bit.

Shawnee123 · 02-06-2009, 09:30 AM

lol..."don't feel sorry for him." A lot of bloody help that would be (to borrow from my British friends) to a dead man. Wasn't there a movie: Dead Men Don't Need Sympathy?

No offense, it just struck me as funny.

DanaC · 02-06-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I don't think dementia played a part in this, considering he was ready to pay the bill with the money on the table and paperclipped to it. He knew the bill was due.

Him being aware a bill was due and getting the money ready doesn't necessarily take dementia (or just confusion or more general memory problems) out of the picture. It just means he was aware at the time he was getting the money ready that there was a bill coming up. Whether or not he was able to get out of the house to pay it, and whether or not he was aware of the date and a bunch of other stuff, we'll never know.

Quote:

My question is why did he let it get so far behind as to let it get shut off in the first place? He found a way to get out to get groceries (or if the grocery store delievered, he at least had contact with someone...via phone or regular delivery service.

Again, we'll never know. We have no idea the level of that man's competance at the time of his death. My uncle Allan used to interact very well with delivery people and customer service people over the phone, and I bet not a one of them was aware he was as mad as a bicycle. Bought all kinds of stuff for home delivery. Knew exactly what he wanted. Knew the cost of all the stuff he wanted. Totally unaware he was being ripped off on his pension by a 'friend' who used to do his regular grocery shopping for him. Competancy isn't absolute. It can be very specific and isn't always easy to quantify.

Clodfobble · 02-06-2009, 12:40 PM

Can I ask a stupid question? Can they really tell the difference between "froze to death" and "died of natural causes and then was frozen because the regulator shut off the heat and he couldn't go turn it back on because he was dead?" The original article refers to a medical examiner doing an autopsy, so they obviously think they're sure about it, I'm just not sure how they can tell the difference.

footfootfoot · 02-06-2009, 01:06 PM

I think there are definite differences in decomposition for one. If a person dies in a warm room decomposition sets in right away, and would be noticeable by the time the body froze. If a person freezes to death there are some cellular changes that take place during the process, but I don't remember them off the top of my head.

A good forensics person can tell just about anything from a dead body. It's pretty amazing.

Well, except for why he had 600Grand and an unpaid bill.

I wouldn't doubt depression for a minute. Anyone who's had it will tell you it can be a day's work getting psyched up to go to the mailbox. It doens't matter how much dough you have.

01-28-2009, 11:50 PM	#76
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Hmm......thinking about this again.....I really don't think this could ever happen near Oakland. __________________ I like my perspectives like I like my baseball caps: one size fits all.

01-29-2009, 09:00 AM	#78
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I agree. I don't think any of us really have all the facts her, but it appears as if something went terribly wrong and finding out the truth now will be very difficult as everyone will now be in CYA mode. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

02-05-2009, 10:08 AM	#81
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	and there you have it. the old man died of his own stupidity. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

02-05-2009, 10:10 AM	#82
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	And he left the CEO of the hospital a nest egg. Nice. __________________ Anyone but the this most fuked up President in History in 2012!

02-05-2009, 02:19 PM	#83
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I wonder what the assets were - could have been just the house and somme life insurance - who knows? I agree with lookout to a degree in that he was either stupid, stubborn, or had Alzheimers... __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

01-29-2009, 09:30 AM	#79
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I'm sure I read earlier that his wife had died and they had had no children. So the closest relatives are likely to be nieces/ nephews, who would likely be 60+ themselves, more likely older. And if either or both were an only child (less common 93 years ago of course) they may not even have had that. It's a horrible thing to have happened, but given that he is supposed to have left a wad of cash out ready to pay the bill it seems just an unhappy chain of events.

02-05-2009, 10:05 AM	#80
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It turns out he had $600,000 in assets, which he has left to an area hospital.

02-06-2009, 08:55 AM	#85
Pico and ME Are you knock-kneed? Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Middle Hoosierland Posts: 3,549	Not only not fair, but cold and heartless too.

02-06-2009, 09:05 AM	#86
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	I don't think dementia played a part in this, considering he was ready to pay the bill with the money on the table and paperclipped to it. He knew the bill was due. My question is why did he let it get so far behind as to let it get shut off in the first place? He found a way to get out to get groceries (or if the grocery store delievered, he at least had contact with someone...via phone or regular delivery service. The bill should have been paid on time. I don't feel sorry for him. He lived a long life, and served our country, and I hope he's in the place of his belief system that he wanted to be. But I'm not pissed at the utility. At all. Not even a little bit. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

02-06-2009, 09:30 AM	#87
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	lol..."don't feel sorry for him." A lot of bloody help that would be (to borrow from my British friends) to a dead man. Wasn't there a movie: Dead Men Don't Need Sympathy? No offense, it just struck me as funny. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

02-06-2009, 12:40 PM	#89
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Can I ask a stupid question? Can they really tell the difference between "froze to death" and "died of natural causes and then was frozen because the regulator shut off the heat and he couldn't go turn it back on because he was dead?" The original article refers to a medical examiner doing an autopsy, so they obviously think they're sure about it, I'm just not sure how they can tell the difference. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

02-06-2009, 01:06 PM	#90
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	I think there are definite differences in decomposition for one. If a person dies in a warm room decomposition sets in right away, and would be noticeable by the time the body froze. If a person freezes to death there are some cellular changes that take place during the process, but I don't remember them off the top of my head. A good forensics person can tell just about anything from a dead body. It's pretty amazing. Well, except for why he had 600Grand and an unpaid bill. I wouldn't doubt depression for a minute. Anyone who's had it will tell you it can be a day's work getting psyched up to go to the mailbox. It doens't matter how much dough you have. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

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