Osama bin Laden is DEAD

[infinite monkey]

jill is DA MAN. Well, da woman.

[glatt]

Giving Merc just enough rope to hang himself with. Jill can hold her own.

It's unfortunate, though, that the Cellar seems unable to hold an intelligent discussion in politics.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by glatt

It's unfortunate, though, that the Cellar seems unable to hold an intelligent discussion in politics.

As others have noted, if UG and Merc could just be vanished from the politics forum, the atmosphere around here would improve stratospherically. I continue to be somewhat amazed that UG has never been banned. He attacks other posters in the nastiest possible way with little or no provocation, and his posts don't even make sense to anyone on either side. My theory is that he goes in and out of a mental institution somewhere. I guess he's kept around for entertainment value.

Merc is something else again. He's smart enough to know better, but he can't resist attacking certain people around here. Merc has spared me the worst of his cutting remarks and even did me a kindness once, so I know deep down there somewhere, there's a reasonable person just dying to come out. Too bad that we don't get to see that person more often.

BTW, Osama has been dead for a few days now. Do we really have to keep going on about it in two separate threads?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by SamIam

As others have noted, if UG and Merc could just be vanished from the politics forum, the atmosphere around here would improve stratospherically. I continue to be somewhat amazed that UG has never been banned. He attacks other posters in the nastiest possible way with little or no provocation, and his posts don't even make sense to anyone on either side. My theory is that he goes in and out of a mental institution somewhere. I guess he's kept around for entertainment value.

That's not an improvement of the atmosphere around here, that is the establishment of an echo chamber, undisturbed by the yes-buts and the ideas of better value. That's the sort of crap the Left ardently desires, that their sorry religion may be imagined The One True Way. One hundred and twenty million untimely deaths say the Left's way is not the True Way. Disbelieve it though you will, there are people who know better than you do. They're over on the Right.

While it does me scant honor to pick on nutbars like tw, his views are altogether too toxic and too prejudicial to leave unchallenged. I don't keep people on Ignore around here either.

But if you insist upon idiocy, you catch hell from me, a non-idiot. If you have nothing visible in the way of values, you catch hell from me, a man of virtue. If you prove by your words that you don't know any better and never did, I spank. Should you dislike the consequences of not thinking well and bleat at me about it, I spank more, until the agonies -- well, grow too great.

Would you like to catch hell from me, Sam-I-Am? Is someone forming a club? The Left usually is not right.

Personally, I do better than that. The hint here is that you can do the same.

[infinite monkey]

It's not 'the Cellar.'

It's the same character over and over. Someone tries, gets shot down, by being treated like a mongrel dog.

I was dismayed at all the "will you two quit bickering" crap when it's just a repeated pattern and the same player shitting all over the place. jill didn't come out bickering. She came out thoughtful and well read and capable.

Even UG doesn't resort to the kind of crap that transpired here yesterday. His "im, you are ignorant" isn't all that bothersome. We consider the source. We even giggle. He cites. We disagree. It's not harmful.

I'm sorry. I had given up my quest to engage in this crap. I didn't want to be an instigator or supporter of it at all anymore. But it's ridiculous.

Sure, he hangs himself. Every time. But treating humans with differing viewpoints (and in many cases actual cites that illustrate and illuminate) the way he does? It's wrong. And it's why there will never be productive or respectful discourse in politics on the Cellar.

Pop-ins to tell someone how wonderful they are, and repeated reminding of manliness by pointing out which women one would like to scrog, do not negate the sheer hatefulness that transpires.

Flame me. I expect it.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

I was dismayed at all the "will you two quit bickering" crap when it's just a repeated pattern and the same player shitting all over the place. jill didn't come out bickering. She came out thoughtful and well read and capable.
.

I agree with this. This is not a 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' argument. Both parties were not equally flinging shit at the other. One was attempting to have a political discussion the other was being an utter cock for no apparent reason and after little if any genuine provocation. Neither were bickering. One was arguing the other was having a public meltdown.

[Stormieweather]

I taught my children that the participant in an argument who resorts to name-calling, personal attacks, and ad hominem arguments (and/or a raised voice) is the person arguing the weakest point. With solid, unimpeachable data to back a position up, there is no need to sink to mud-slinging to (try to) win an argument.

Shutting down/silencing the opposition, or attempting to, does not eliminate their standpoint or any validity of same.

[classicman]

Oh please - I was trying to deflect the issue with a joke.
So IM and Dana - you are taking shots at me over this? WTF?

IM" I was dismayed at all the "will you two quit bickering" crap"

Dana "I agree with this."

Puhlease. You wanna bitch at Merc for being an asshole last night
or every night or whatever your opinion is - do it.
But leave me and my one offhand comment out of it?

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by classicman

Oh please - I was trying to deflect the issue with a joke.
So IM and Dana - you are taking shots at me over this? WTF?


Puhlease. You wanna bitch at Merc for being an asshole last night
or every night or whatever your opinion is - do it.
But leave me and my one offhand comment out of it?

I wasn't aiming anything at you Dave. I was just commenting on the fact that in this case it isn't a case of bickering. I didn't even have anyone in mind who'd said that, except possibly Aliantha (though i did not mean it in a nasty way Ali) who attempted to peacemake by aiming her mock reprimand at both participants.

[Jill]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

So Jill doesn't have the right to voice her opinions because she isn't a regular? So you call her inane, childish and hateful names instead of trying to have a reasonable conversation? Yeah, you completely believe in this country's ideals....free speech and all that. Jill, keep doing what you're doing hon.

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Jill, when he starts with the name calling and cussing its because he's cornered and knows it. His game is weak and always has been. Like mtp says, just keep doing what you're doing.

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

jill is DA MAN. Well, da woman.

Originally Posted by glatt

Giving Merc just enough rope to hang himself with. Jill can hold her own.

It's unfortunate, though, that the Cellar seems unable to hold an intelligent discussion in politics.

Originally Posted by DanaC

I agree with this. This is not a 'six of one, half a dozen of the other' argument. Both parties were not equally flinging shit at the other. One was attempting to have a political discussion the other was being an utter cock for no apparent reason and after little if any genuine provocation. Neither were bickering. One was arguing the other was having a public meltdown.

Originally Posted by Stormieweather

I taught my children that the participant in an argument who resorts to name-calling, personal attacks, and ad hominem arguments (and/or a raised voice) is the person arguing the weakest point. With solid, unimpeachable data to back a position up, there is no need to sink to mud-slinging to (try to) win an argument.

Shutting down/silencing the opposition, or attempting to, does not eliminate their standpoint or any validity of same.

Thank you all very much for these kind words. I sincerely appreciate the support.

I sure didn't mean for such a shitstorm to be kicked up around here. I certainly could have ignored him and not allowed the insanity to go on so long. But truth be told, one of the reasons I came looking for you guys again is because the other forum I've been on doesn't allow you to defend against personal attacks or tell a person what you really think of their stupidity. All you can do is report an "offending" post to a moderator and hope they agree with you that it's an attack and delete it. If you engage at all, you get an "infraction" and I've reached my breaking point of having to sit back and let all the stupidity go unchallenged.

At least here I can tell an idiot they're an idiot without fear of getting "spanked" by a moderator. So for that, this forum is a bit of a breath of fresh air. Unfortunately my new-found freedom tasted a little too good to me, and by not letting it go, it slid from fresh into putrid yesterday.

I could have put a stop to it instead of feeding it, so for my part in allowing it to get out of hand, I understand those who were trying to be neutral and just suggest that the "bickering" stop. And after all, they know one of the parties better and would rather remain friendly than create a divide with them, which I totally get. They may have seen that that one party was being more offensive than the other, but the other (me) was keeping it going. For that I offer apologies. I'm sure you guys don't like seeing the forum dissolve into that kind of mess, regardless of who's more right and who's more wrong.

So, today's a new day. Let's go forward with a new 'tude!

[HungLikeJesus]

Originally Posted by Jill

...getting "spanked" by a moderator. ...

Oh, have you met our new moderator?

[Jill]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Oh, have you met our new moderator?

I'm not sure. Should I be scared?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

I heard that comment from Ali.
What are you talking about?

Originally Posted by DanaC

I wasn't aiming anything at you.

Originally Posted by classicman

Ya know - while you two are bickering... Osama is DEAD!
Think of the children.

That is the first reference to bickering in that thread. Merc quoted it, and then today you both jumped in.

Care to try again?

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by classicman

That is the first reference to bickering in that thread. Merc quoted it, and then today you both jumped in.

Care to try again?

Are you accusing me of lying to you Classic?

I was not referring to anybody specifically, but I did have Ali's intervention in mind ( though clearly it was meant in good humour and taken as such by Jill).

This is a seventeen page thread. Do you really think I have kept track of everybody's contributions?

@ Merc: good man.


[eta] I just went back and read that bickering comment. I do recall now noticing it as the humorous comment you intended. Seriously, that one just went by. Maybe the word stuck in Infi's mind, but I am pretty sure it was Ali's peacemaking that she was referring to. It's certainly what came to mind for me.

Specifically this:

Originally Posted by Aliantha

I reckon you should both cool your jets before you launch yourselves into space. lol

Obviously there was a different understanding of the whole 'need to know' statement and it's resulted in a big argument.

Now you can both just kiss and make up or I'll kick both of your arses.

eta: and Merc, you know the name calling isn't cool mate. You're better than that.

As i said, it wasn't a terrible comment. It was a peacemaking post. Well-intended and well-received. But that's what I was referring to, and am pretty sure Infi was also.

[infinite monkey]

You're right Dana. The 'bickering' word was just more concise and I honestly didn't pick it out of a line-up, looking for classic.

It was the tone. I know it was joking on c's part, and for Ali's part I felt she was just trying to be peacemaker, as you said. I just wanted to point out that the slinging was very one-sided.

You may now go back to being the center of your own lives.