Burma Protests

[PointsOfLight]

Things are looking ugly for Burma. My professor told us that apparently a huge number of monks from previous days protests were attacked during the night. Their places were ransacked and they were beaten and put in jail... i know there's a BBC video on it somewhere.

The protests continue on though...hopeufully it won't be a repeat of 1988.

YouTube footage of protests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRmOibAEDGQ

BBC report: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7016608.stm

[Ibby]

It's either gonna end in revolution or wholesale slaughter. It's prettymuch to the point of no return, I think. More momentum than can be stopped.

[Spexxvet]

I heard they tried to buy yellow cake from Niger. When do you think we'll invade?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Up the ante..
http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php?t=9357

[lookout123]

Is this because they're pissed about not getting royalties for all the shaving cream signs?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Here's a blog from inside Burma, risking execution for posting pictures.

Not enough oil in Burma for us to occupy and force them to be happy.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Bruce, one datum that vindicates my point of view and not yours: the demonstrators are shouting, "Give us freedom! Give us freedom!"

Can't get a free social order nowadays without a democratic government. You've never understood that a less-than-democracy is not the logical nor likely free choice of any people but something imposed on them by force organized well enough to carry the day -- which frankly amounts to bigoted thinking, to imagine they wouldn't choose democracy. You're not a bigot -- I think... Can I be certain?

YANGON, Myanmar - Soldiers with automatic rifles fired into crowds of anti-government demonstrators Thursday, killing at least nine people in the bloodiest day in more than a month of protests demanding an end to military rule.

Bloody sandals lay scattered on some streets as protesters fled shouting "Give us freedom, give us freedom!"

On the second day of a brutal crackdown, truckloads of troops in riot gear also raided Buddhist monasteries on the outskirts of Yangon, beating and arresting dozens of monks, witnesses and Western diplomats said. Japan protested the killing of a Japanese photographer.

From Yahoo!News

[xoxoxoBruce]

No vindication for you, war monger.
If the want democracy, they will have to create it for themselves. First they have to convince the rest of the country that they want it too. What percent of the population of Burma are marching in the streets?

Look at the demonstrators on the news when the WTO comes to town and you'd be convinced that the whole US is down on the WTO.
Do you think the people screaming on the news from NYC, means that most Americans don't want Ahmadinejad to be allowed to speak here?

Nope, you're not allowed to force people to play by your rules.
You're not the judge. You're not the judge. You're not the judge. slam!

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Blind. Blind, blind, blind, and no apostle of democracy, you.

You're trying to tell me these people haven't validity because they are yet few? Jee-zus, Bruce! Is there any recollection of Tien An Men in your dome? How about Hungary 1956? You're clawing after rationalizations for your bigotry, guy. It's a bigotry I don't suffer from, and you don't have to suffer from it either, is my message. But it falls on ears so deaf they might as well be carved out of basalt, no?

You've got a problem with removing fascists. That means you prefer to leave them to abuse the peoples. I do not. That is why my view is better than your view. It could be your view too; it's not my exclusive property nor trademarked. Put another way, democracy is good for anybody, not just Americans. To say that only Americans should have it and not help it grow elsewhere by doing whatever is necessary to neutralize hostile power is plain crazy talk.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No, I have a problem with YOU removing fascists.
If the people don't want fascist leaders, THEY must remove them. That's the only way democracy happens.

[DanaC]

Bruce, one datum that vindicates my point of view and not yours: the demonstrators are shouting, "Give us freedom! Give us freedom!"

Yes, "give us freedom", not "give us a foreign invader"

The Burmese opposition wants diplomatic and economic pressure brought to bear and the ending of support from India and China for the dictatorship. They are trying to effect democracy, I hope they succeed. Nobody can impose democracy onto another country. All you can do is offer support to those who are seeking it.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, I have a problem with YOU removing fascists.
If the people don't want fascist leaders, THEY must remove them. That's the only way democracy happens.

Would you support invading a country that is supportive of overthrowing a fascist dictator but don't have the means to do it themselves.

This is assuming that our goal is NOT to spread our influence to their country, but to give the population a jumpstart they need to take control of their own country.

[Cloud]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Up the ante..
http://www.cellar.org/showthread.php?t=9357

well, that was interesting

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Would you support invading a country that is supportive of overthrowing a fascist dictator but don't have the means to do it themselves.

This is assuming that our goal is NOT to spread our influence to their country, but to give the population a jumpstart they need to take control of their own country.

NO! That's exactly what Bush did in Iraq. We'll just take out Saddam and everything will be hunky dory, because the people said they wanted to be free. Well, that doen't work.
We don't need no mo stinkin' quagmires.