May 23, 2012 - Riot Gear

[SPUCK]

Wow.. You subscribe to the whole enchilada.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I don't "subscribe" to anything but my experience, and first hand accounts of friends. Even with them, I try to discard exaggerations and embellishments.

I've posted here about the PA state cop that saved my ass when I fell and dislocated my shoulder in the woods. I also posted about sending thank you cards to the two cops that shot and killed a bank robber who opened fire in a crowded parking lot.

I have a lot of respect for cops, and the shit they face every day. None for the people that use them for evil, and contempt for the ones that refuse to confront rogue cops.

[wolf]

I'm in the 'shopped crowd on this one.

Police departments these days as super-sensitive to public image. So much so that no officer would be permitted that kind of personal expression on equipment, particularly some one with rank (those look like Captain's bars on that vest). Actually the whole outfit looks less tidy than regulation. If that is an undoctored image, perhaps it's of a rioter, not the riot squad?

As far as riot gear, SWAT, etc. ... if people weren't assholes, we would need that kind of policing.

[Aliantha]

I don't care if it's shopped. It's still funny in context.

As to cops in riot gear. I think they have a right to protect themselves from petrol bombs and all the other nasties that sometimes get thrown about during some protests. If the best protection happens to be a military style outfit then that's just life. Why should the cops who put their lives on the line every day for those same knuckleheads, be in more danger just so they don't look too scary? It's a nasty scary world out there, and it's getting worse.

[ZenGum]

It is true that sometimes there are riots where strong police force is necessary, and a well equipped riot squad (or well-armed SWAT team) is called for.

Problem is, once that squad exists, it wants to find something to do. And the powers that be seem quite keen to use that sort of force even when it really isn't called for. As Bruce said, this alienates the majority of people and makes the cops the enemy.

Last year I saw a doco which talked about dealing with the riots at the Celtics Vs Rangers games in Scotland. Step one was to make one set of entrances for Celtics fans, and the other set of entrances for Rangers fans, but they were within sight of each other and just a bottle's throw apart.
If the gap in between was filled with fully equipped riot cops, things almost always turned violent. Instead they now fill the gap with ordinary cops in uniform, and things almost always remain peaceful. They do, of course, have a few truckloads of riot cops in a warehouse a short distance away.

[classicman]

FWIW ... Print this out and keep it in your wallet.

[Aliantha]

On the flip side, there was an issue here in Brisbane a couple of weeks ago where a tent embassy had been set up by indigenous people, but the Greek community wanted to hold their annual festival there.

Police were brought in to move the embassy (in the end, just to one side of the park), but the one item that really caught my attention was that one copper booked a woman in her car who tooted her horn in support of the aboriginal people.

Way to alienate the general population mate!

[xoxoxoBruce]

A Toronto internal police disciplinary ruling found that Constable Andrew Vanderburgh was "harassed and berated" by other cops because he insisted on booking an off-duty cop whom he'd caught driving drunk. Vanderburgh, a rookie, brought in Breton Berthiaume based on a phoned-in tip about an erratic highway driver. Berthiaume, an off-duty cop, failed a breathalyzer. When Vanderburgh went ahead and booked the other officer, his fellow cops objected, and began a campaign of harassment and intimidation. The Toronto Star's Betsy Powell reports:

link

[Undertoad]

Yeeeah. Couple years ago a PA state trooper turned the wrong way on to the Schuylkill from Spring Garden and proceeded up the highway at speed until he hit someone. He was killed. He was drunk.

It turned out he supervised DUI checkpoints and reconstructed fatal accidents. And it turned out to be 1am the night before his 8am court appearance for DUI.

true story

[Perry Winkle]

I might believe those riot suits were not meant for intimidation if they made them in happy pastel colors.

[wolf]

Pastels show too much dirt. You need the blacks and charcoal grays, really.

[wolf]

Well, there's a surprise. Cops are human, and humans sometimes do stupid things.

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Right, I'm sure they aren't trying to look scary.

About as terrifying as a guy in a welder's mask, but maybe I'm just not scared by the look. I suggest the elbow to elbow, show-of-force march formation is 'scarier' than the outfit itself.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

TV? Yes, the evening news, several times a week.

That's exactly what I'm saying. When's the last time a policeman (or line of policemen) in riot gear were really touted as the ones to run to and not run from anywhere? I suppose a shopkeeper might welcome the sight if his windows are being broken during a protest but who else?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Because when they're dressed that way they're not being heroes, they are being instigators of violence, or tools of the stupid "War on Drugs".

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'm sure you're right, I'd even venture it's the majority, but that doesn't stop the Blue Code of Silence.

Not long ago I witnessed a rogue cop being a complete dick, breaking eleventeen laws, and abusing the shit out of a innocent couple. All the while eight other cops stood around shaking their heads, rolling their eyes, face palming, and not doing a god damn thing about it.

No, it doesn't and it won't. And it's not just the police. Just about any fraternity-type group where the idea of watching each others' backs and trusting your brother is deeply ground in will have the same problems. The military, for example. The difference is, it's culturally acceptable and sometimes demanded that we cheer on all military members, even the ones who go AWOL, even the ones who go into civilian homes and murder the whole family with no justifiable threat as a pretext, even the ones who cut off souvenir fingers and piss on the bodies afterwards, even the ones who come home with PTSD issues and haul off and kill someone in cold blood... somehow that's okay, people want to give them a pass, they still aren't scary because they're service members and they voluntarily joined the Greatest Military This World Has Ever Known(tm). However, if people see a line of cops in reinforced welder's masks and body armor that looks like a slimmed down version of a football player's pads, they're terrifying. Perhaps it's because they're doing their scary things in your neighborhood, so to speak, instead of halfway around the world?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Cyber Wolf

About as terrifying as a guy in a welder's mask, but maybe I'm just not scared by the look. I suggest the elbow to elbow, show-of-force march formation is 'scarier' than the outfit itself.

I would tend to agree, but I've seen a phalanx of police in regular uniforms move a crowd with no trouble. I think the riot gear says I've come to kick ass.

That's exactly what I'm saying. When's the last time a policeman (or line of policemen) in riot gear were really touted as the ones to run to and not run from anywhere?

When they wore regular uniforms and targeted only troublemakers.

I suppose a shopkeeper might welcome the sight if his windows are being broken during a protest but who else??

Anyone near the G-8 "protesters", every time.

[quote]No, it doesn't and it won't. And it's not just the police. Just about any fraternity-type group where the idea of watching each others' backs and trusting your brother is deeply ground in will have the same problems. The military, for example. The difference is, it's culturally acceptable and sometimes demanded that we cheer on all military members, even the ones who go AWOL, even the ones who go into civilian homes and murder the whole family with no justifiable threat as a pretext, even the ones who cut off souvenir fingers and piss on the bodies afterwards, even the ones who come home with PTSD issues and haul off and kill someone in cold blood... somehow that's okay, people want to give them a pass, they still aren't scary because they're service members and they voluntarily joined the Greatest Military This World Has Ever Known(tm).[quote] I don't, if I know about it.

However, if people see a line of cops in reinforced welder's masks and body armor that looks like a slimmed down version of a football player's pads, they're terrifying. Perhaps it's because they're doing their scary things in your neighborhood, so to speak, instead of halfway around the world?

Good point, although they don't do it in my 'hood because we have state police coverage instead of local cops, so they're not bullies for the local politicians.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by wolf

Well, there's a surprise. Cops are human, and humans sometimes do stupid things.

So they get a pass unlike others that do stupid shit?