May 30, 2008: Uncontacted Indigenous People

[smoothmoniker]

I don't plan to supply them with anything apart from the knowledge that there is a wider world of human advancement, and they have the right to participate in it.

Once they know that, if they still intend to live in isolation, then I have no problem with that. They're entitled to that privacy, and to the undisturbed continuation of their current way of life. As it stands right now, we're depriving them of the freedom to make that choice. We are insisting that they remain ignorant of the state of modern human society.

I'm not proposing that we do to them, or for them, anything. Maybe that's the point of confusion here.

[smoothmoniker]

By the way, I'm also opposed to infringing on their territory for commercial logging. I'm not arguing in favor of that. My point is very, very limited. I'm arguing that preserving the culture of an indigenous people by withholding all contact is cruelty, perpetuated by post-colonial guilt and cultural self-loathing on the part of western society.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Show them Oprah, then tell them they can't afford a HD converter. (US joke)

I'm not proposing that we do to them, or for them, anything.

And this will prevent unnecessary deaths? Wouldn't that take doing something to them, or are you saying if they make the right choice they can do that themselves?

[jinx]

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

My point is very, very limited.

It's also all theory and philosophy and not based on the reality of the situation at all - but you want to make snarky remarks about watching Idol to anyone who disagrees with you. Nice job.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by jinx

It's also all theory and philosophy and not based on the reality of the situation at all

Why is a small team of experienced researchers going out to talk to them not a possible reality?

[jinx]

There are a lot of possible realities. The possibility that a small group of researchers will go to talk with them, and offer them all the information, but none of the materials, that they need to catch up with 'us' - is, I think, slim. A fantasy scenario really.

[smoothmoniker]

Yes, by all means, let's limit our discussion to things that can actually be accomplished by a bunch of nerds typing away in an online forum.

Theory and philosophy is all we do here. That and hilarious penis jokes.

[DanaC]

I'm guessing, given the war paint and general 'go away' tone in that photo, that said small group might not be welcomed with open arms.

[jinx]

In that case SM, I think they should be contacted by a small group of Hooters waitresses and Chipendales with a bunch of winning lottery tickets.

[Aliantha]

They might end up dead even. What then? Does the tribe member get charged with murder? It's almost laughable. In fact, I did lol at that thought.

Just leave them alone.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I'm guessing, given the war paint and general 'go away' tone in that photo, that said small group might not be welcomed with open arms.

Are the researchers going to come dressed as large airplanes? Those tribes don't even realize that there are people inside the huge loud flying creature.

[smoothmoniker]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Are the researchers going to come dressed as large airplanes?

That would be awesome.

[lumberjim]

there are a lot of assumptions being made about what these people know. How do you know they haven't communicated with us long ago and decided that we're bad news......a more likely scenario in my mind....

And how can you expect to communicate all the potential benefits and repercussions of their exposure to modern society in a meaningful enough way for their choice to be made clearly and properly. Hubris! They've survived as long as they have in isolation because they know how to. They have the right to their privacy. If they want to meet us, they'd come to us....we're not THAT far away from them.

just because you CAN help someone, doesn't mean they want your help. Don't we have better shit to do, anyway?

[Flint]

We're weighing all the benefits we have to offer on one hand, and on the other: ??? (nothing). We don't know anything about them, so naturally we assume that they need our fancy bullshit. What I'm arguing against is that we have some kind of moral obligation to interfere with them, presumably because they are unable to fend for themselves. Meanwhile, if they have any kind of oral history of contact with Europeans, then I'd say there is about a 99.999999999% chance that they are avoiding us on purpose. . . . And I didn't just pull those numbers out of my ass.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Are the researchers going to come dressed as large airplanes? Those tribes don't even realize that there are people inside the huge loud flying creature.

Or is that part of the sensationalization of this whole subject? I bet they have heard of these things by only a few degrees of separation. When helipcopters are flying above my house and take photos, I hold my stick high in the air and wave it too. It's called, fuck off, prying modern world.

C'mon guys! The photos are taken out of helicopters and you can see people on them. Someone already said it. They are a rural tribe who get information late, but not that late.

If they are evading loggers and on the run, they want nothing to do with it, and they aren't stupid.

When they want contact with us, we will know it, possibly by the spear in our ribcages.

They have seen and are running from what we do already, because we are scary sob's. It's not because we have "metal monsters". It's because we are destroying their shit and they know we are more sophisticated. They have every good and noble reason not to contact us. I can't say the same for us.

The babies dying are from larger populations in third world countries that have already been colonized (contacted). Which is how you could get a statistic in the first place. We don't have census or stats from the uncontacted. They don't vote, go to our hospitals, or talk to aid workers. So your world stats do not apply to the uncontacted.