Here's how it is, and this goes back to Socrates

Undertoad · 01-10-2010, 02:15 PM

Smart people tell us how right they are, and how much they know.

Wise people tell us where they made terrible errors and mistakes, and how much they don't know.

Clodfobble · 01-10-2010, 02:30 PM

But what's left for the dumb people to do then?

For me, it's the people who falsely or unsuccessfully try to apply this premise that are the worst, though. People who constantly tell everyone how they cop to mistakes all the time, how they are very eager to learn when they're wrong... except they aren't really. Or they spend a lot of time telling everyone else how much they (other people) don't know, and think that's the same thing as admitting that they themselves don't know.

Cicero · 01-10-2010, 02:46 PM

Yah but that is the difference between Socrates and I...I really don't know? lol!

Urbane Guerrilla · 01-10-2010, 10:27 PM

Such as grammar, for instance... sigh... the objective case of I is me. This happens whether the pronoun is the object of a verb or of a preposition, in this case between.

Declining pronouns is a characteristic of Germanic-group languages, of which English is one in spite of its extensive Latinate vocabulary. (It's all in what we do around verbs. They are less likely to get pushed around than nouns.)

People are not being trained to any standard in English any more. My generation mostly knows better than that. [/grousing]

xoxoxoBruce · 01-10-2010, 10:39 PM

.

Undertoad · 01-11-2010, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

People are not being trained to any standard in English any more. My generation mostly knows better than that. [/grousing]

How right you are. How much you know.

Pie · 01-11-2010, 11:51 AM

skysidhe · 01-11-2010, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Smart people tell us how right they are, and how much they know.

Wise people tell us where they made terrible errors and mistakes, and how much they don't know.

Can you give a little more information on the angle you want to take because I am really struggling with his methods and my bias against the political aspects of him and his protege.

Not to mention the little demi-god advise which Bush seemed to share. oh and all those noble lies for the good of the commoner.

SEE? I'm stuck.

It just HAD to come out! Even though you are going for another angle I am sure of it but those statements can be taken out of context because even though they hold a basis of truth they are so pat and cute.

It is my opinion that some days people are wise and some days they are smart.

It just depends upon which side of the bed I arose from and if I took my vitamin b12 for the day.

Are we only really just two types. I need more information.

Cicero · 01-11-2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Such as grammar, for instance... sigh... the objective case of I is me. This happens whether the pronoun is the object of a verb or of a preposition, in this case between.

Declining pronouns is a characteristic of Germanic-group languages, of which English is one in spite of its extensive Latinate vocabulary. (It's all in what we do around verbs. They are less likely to get pushed around than nouns.)

People are not being trained to any standard in English any more. My generation mostly knows better than that. [/grousing]

I bow to your intellectual superiority.

lumberjim · 01-11-2010, 12:55 PM

Passive aggressive thread is passive aggressive.

Happy Monkey · 01-11-2010, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Smart people tell us how right they are, and how much they know.

Wise people tell us where they made terrible errors and mistakes, and how much they don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

But what's left for the dumb people to do then?

The same thing as smart people, but incorrectly.

Undertoad · 01-11-2010, 01:14 PM

You can take the Socrates out of it, Sky, if you like.

I think he was one of the first people to notice: that one of the smartest things he ever realized, was how much he didn't know.

I think of it when I read UG or Radar arguing like this:

I am right, because I am smarter than you.

The first thing I notice is that this incorrect on its face; it is not a logical argument; it's an Appeal to Authority.

There is a very rich irony in the "smartest" people constantly indulging in this logical fallacy.

But moreover, over time, I personally find intelligence to be kind of overrated. It's a personal thing. When I was a youngster, they gave me the long psych-supervised IQ tests, and they found that I was "gifted" and at the high end of the bell curve.

Now, in my middle ages, I see that this is a nice thing to have; like being good looking, or being coordinated, or getting good genes, or having rich parents. It's a little advantage you get, right out of the box. But A) it entitles you to exactly jack shit; like all the other advantages, it only matters what you do with it. And B) you wind up terribly wrong and utterly confused about a shitload of things, just like everybody else.

So, as I get older, I find that I pay more attention to people with a certain humility. (And not Rk's fake humility, as Clod pointed out, where at the end of the day he's still utterly self-absorbed and it's still all about him.)

skysidhe · 01-11-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

You can take the Socrates out of it, Sky, if you like.

phew..oh thanks I will.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Now, in my middle ages, I see that this is a nice thing to have, like being good looking, or being coordinated, or getting good genes, or having rich parents. It's a little advantage you get, right out of the box. But A) it entitles you to exactly jack shit; like all the other advantages, it only matters what you do with it. And B) you wind up terribly wrong and utterly confused about a shitload of things, just like everybody else.

Truth!

My son knows this so well.

You have set certain moral standard for yourself that is personal and deep.

It is more important that being smart or right.

Thank you for sharing UT

Cicero · 01-11-2010, 01:30 PM

It's funny UT brought this up. I've been thinking for weeks, about how I can't really know anything.

This is a horrible thought process as I try to job search and try and convince others to hire me. The marketable person does not think: I think I know a lot, but what can be truly known really?

It really isn't about being smart per se. It's about the impossibilities of truly knowing anything in a Universe full of mystery, and as-yet unknowns.

Pride goes before the fall?

We can examine the differences between being informed, and truly knowing.

Shawnee123 · 01-11-2010, 01:39 PM

An unexamined life is not worth living.
--Sew-crates. (Me knowed him)

01-10-2010, 02:15 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Here's how it is, and this goes back to Socrates Smart people tell us how right they are, and how much they know. Wise people tell us where they made terrible errors and mistakes, and how much they don't know.

01-10-2010, 02:30 PM	#2
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	But what's left for the dumb people to do then? For me, it's the people who falsely or unsuccessfully try to apply this premise that are the worst, though. People who constantly tell everyone how they cop to mistakes all the time, how they are very eager to learn when they're wrong... except they aren't really. Or they spend a lot of time telling everyone else how much they (other people) don't know, and think that's the same thing as admitting that they themselves don't know. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

01-10-2010, 02:46 PM	#3
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	Yah but that is the difference between Socrates and I...I really don't know? lol! __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

01-10-2010, 10:27 PM	#4
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Such as grammar, for instance... sigh... the objective case of I is me. This happens whether the pronoun is the object of a verb or of a preposition, in this case between. Declining pronouns is a characteristic of Germanic-group languages, of which English is one in spite of its extensive Latinate vocabulary. (It's all in what we do around verbs. They are less likely to get pushed around than nouns.) People are not being trained to any standard in English any more. My generation mostly knows better than that. [/grousing] __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

01-10-2010, 10:39 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	. Attached Images __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-11-2010, 11:51 AM	#7
Pie Gone and done Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 4,808	__________________ per·son \ˈpər-sən\ (noun) - an ephemeral collection of small, irrational decisions The fun thing about evolution (and science in general) is that it happens whether you believe in it or not.

01-11-2010, 12:55 PM	#10
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	Passive aggressive thread is passive aggressive. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

01-11-2010, 01:14 PM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	You can take the Socrates out of it, Sky, if you like. I think he was one of the first people to notice: that one of the smartest things he ever realized, was how much he didn't know. I think of it when I read UG or Radar arguing like this: I am right, because I am smarter than you. The first thing I notice is that this incorrect on its face; it is not a logical argument; it's an Appeal to Authority. There is a very rich irony in the "smartest" people constantly indulging in this logical fallacy. But moreover, over time, I personally find intelligence to be kind of overrated. It's a personal thing. When I was a youngster, they gave me the long psych-supervised IQ tests, and they found that I was "gifted" and at the high end of the bell curve. Now, in my middle ages, I see that this is a nice thing to have; like being good looking, or being coordinated, or getting good genes, or having rich parents. It's a little advantage you get, right out of the box. But A) it entitles you to exactly jack shit; like all the other advantages, it only matters what you do with it. And B) you wind up terribly wrong and utterly confused about a shitload of things, just like everybody else. So, as I get older, I find that I pay more attention to people with a certain humility. (And not Rk's fake humility, as Clod pointed out, where at the end of the day he's still utterly self-absorbed and it's still all about him.)

01-11-2010, 01:30 PM	#14
Cicero Looking forward to open mic night. Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New Mexico Posts: 5,148	It's funny UT brought this up. I've been thinking for weeks, about how I can't really know anything. This is a horrible thought process as I try to job search and try and convince others to hire me. The marketable person does not think: I think I know a lot, but what can be truly known really? It really isn't about being smart per se. It's about the impossibilities of truly knowing anything in a Universe full of mystery, and as-yet unknowns. Pride goes before the fall? We can examine the differences between being informed, and truly knowing. __________________ Show me a sane man, and I will cure him for you.- Carl Jung

01-11-2010, 01:39 PM	#15
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	An unexamined life is not worth living. --Sew-crates. (Me knowed him) __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)