Hard & Soft America

[xoxoxoBruce]

Someone send me a newspaper article about a new book "Hard America, Soft America: Competition vs. Coddling and the Battle for the Nation's Future." by Michael Barone. Why does America produce so many incompetent 18-year-olds but remarkably competent 30-year-olds? I’ll paraphrase his ideas.

Schooling became universal and then schools became emblematic of Soft America, with "progressive" values, banning dodge ball and other games deemed too competitive, attempt personality adjustment, promoting self-esteem for almost anyone with a pulse.
Hard America plays for keeps: The private sector fires people when profits fall and the military trains under live fire. Soft America depends on the productivity, creativity and competence of Hard America, to protect the country and pays its bills.

By 1950, America. had a Big Unit economy - big business and big labor, with big government mediating between them.
Between 1947 and 1968, big business got bigger: the share of assets owned by the 200 largest industrial companies rose from 47 percent to 61 percent. Then came a hardening by deregulation. The Interstate Commerce Commission, was abolished.
Between 1970 and 1990, the rate at which companies fell from the Fortune 500 quadrupled. The portion of the GNP accounted for by the 100 largest industrial corporations fell from 36 percent in 1974 to 17 percent in 1998.

In 1957 the Soviet Sputnik provoked some hardening of America's schools - with more science & advance placement courses, and consolidation of rural schools. Kennedy's vow to reach the moon by the end of the 1960s was an inherently hard goal, with a hard deadline measuring success or failure. But the second half of the 1960s brought the Great Softening - in schools and welfare policies, in an emphasis on redistribution rather than production of wealth. Racial preferences, which were born in the 1960s and '70s, fence some blacks off from Hard America, insulating them in "a Soft America where lack of achievement will nonetheless be rewarded."

In the criminal justice system, the number of violent crimes per 100,000 people rose from 1,126 in 1960 to 2,747 in 1970, while the prison population declined from 212,000 in 1960 to 196,000 in 1970. In 2000, after the swing toward hardening, there were 1.3 million prisoners.
The Detroit riot of 1967 lasted six nights before 2,700 federal troops restored order. In 1992, the Los Angeles riots lasted 18 hours, ending six hours after 25,000 federal troops were dispatched.

In the Soft America of 1970, the tapestry of welfare benefits had a cash value greater than a minimum wage job. In the Harder America of 1996, welfare reform repealed Aid to Families with Dependent Children, a lifetime entitlement to welfare. And in the 1990s, welfare dependency, and crime, were cut in half. A harder, self-disciplined America is a safer America.

What institution is consistently rated most trustworthy by Americans? The institution that ended its reliance on conscription, that has no racial preferences and has rigorous life-and death rules and standards: the military.

[DanaC]

y'could go the whole hog and make like the spartans

The MILITARY????? You've got to be kidding? Have you any close friends who currently serve in our armed forces? My Dad was a 30 year "lifer" in the US Army. I have a close friend who served in the army for 7 years and is a Gulf War vet. A second friend of mine spent his entire career as an Air Force officer and taught at the most prestigous military school, the United States Air Force Academy. The stories that they tell about military bungling, stupidity, waste of resources and disregard for the enlisted men who serve within its ranks are hair raising. I respect the courage and the honor of our individual soldiers who serve in the military. I am filled with contempt for the heirarchy of the Army and the Department of Defense, as well as the politicians who send these young men off to die in dishonorable and needless wars.

Your little essay which you quoted regarding "hard" versus "soft" left out a teensy little fact. Japan and Europe had no manufacturing infrastructure left after WWII. Everything in those countries was in ruins. The US had a virtual world monopoly on the making and trade of manufactured goods. US companies had no competition internationally and the money poured in.

Alas, Europe and Japan had finally begun to rebuild enough to become competitive in the 70's. The US had also begun to become ever more dependent on foreign oil. There are a few of us around who remember when gasoline prices suddenly went from around .25 cents a gallon to a $1.00 or more. These two things were a heavy blow to American corporations, which far from being "hard" had become soft and lazy in the 50's and 60's.
CEO's with little imagination and even less regard for their employees or their nation, outsourced their labor pools to countries where children would work for$1.00 a day. The willingness of the individual American working man to do a decent job had little if any impact on this decision. The name of the game was merely to keep the profits high by any means.

Their is no logical reason to correlate a drop-off in the provision of social services with a drop in the over-all crime rate, Logic would say, that if anything, the converse would be true. I glanced over the statistics from the department of justice myself and noticed an interesting little footnote. In 1995, they changed some of their reporting methodology. Co-incidentally, that was the same year the crime rate began to go down. Big Brother trying to make itself look good by lying with statistics? There is as much or more evidence for the second hypothesis as the first.

[xoxoxoBruce]

First of all, these are not my ideas but Michael Barone's. I just presented them for comment.
I believe he was pointing out the "people" trust the military more than the politicians or corporations not to screw them. I could be wrong in my interpretation.

Your little essay which you quoted regarding "hard" versus "soft" left out a teensy little fact. Japan and Europe had no manufacturing infrastructure left after WWII. Everything in those countries was in ruins. The US had a virtual world monopoly on the making and trade of manufactured goods. US companies had no competition internationally and the money poured in.

That's exactly what he said, it wasn't until after 1970 that businesses had to harden up. But I wonder if that was good for the workers or the country.

There are a few of us around who remember when gasoline prices suddenly went from around .25 cents a gallon to a $1.00 or more.

Yeah, I remember 17.9 cents. As I understand it, we declined to provide the ever increasing appitite for expensive weapons so they jacked the price of oil to buy there own.

I agree he's full of shit on the tough on crime and welfare correlation. Both are patronizing the frustrated tax payers with feel good legislation that doesn't solve real problems.

I think he's a republican.

[farfromhome]

""Schooling became universal and then schools became emblematic of Soft America, with "progressive" values, banning dodge ball and..."

I don't want to be thread stealing dude,but when I saw dodge ball I had to laugh.I'm 44 years old.When I was in the fourth grade I was the last kid alive on my team in dodgeball. I was steaming as hard as I could in the gym while trying to watch all the other kids trying to kill me.In those days gym walls didn't have padding.I hit the wall at full speed....,.A year ago I lost the permanent crown(I guess I swallowed it.)I've lost all my good old bennies.I have this terrible looking piece of a front tooth.Worse than no tooth.God,I'm embarrassed.

[depmats]

[quote]Originally posted by marichiko
[b]The MILITARY????? The stories that they tell about military bungling, stupidity, waste of resources and disregard for the enlisted men who serve within its ranks are hair raising.

I am so tired of hearing this. What large organization doesn't produce some of this. Most of us with an ongoing connection to the military understand shit happens - so deal with it. And those of us who deal with the civilian world AND the military world acknowledge that incompetance is far more prevalent in the civilian world than in the US military.

In the 70's and 80's the military had a lot more problems than it does now due to the draftees. (note to anyone who cares - real military members don't want a draftee anywhere near a uniform) Starting in the mid-80's and continuing until shortly after Desert Storm the military cleaned up its act. Most of the a$$holes who were only there for the benefits (college, etc...) but didn't think they should have to go to war chose to or were forced to get out. With all due respect, this is not your father's military.

[quote]Originally posted by depmats
[b]

Originally posted by marichiko
The MILITARY????? The stories that they tell about military bungling, stupidity, waste of resources and disregard for the enlisted men who serve within its ranks are hair raising.

I am so tired of hearing this. What large organization doesn't produce some of this. Most of us with an ongoing connection to the military understand shit happens - so deal with it. And those of us who deal with the civilian world AND the military world acknowledge that incompetance is far more prevalent in the civilian world than in the US military.

In the 70's and 80's the military had a lot more problems than it does now due to the draftees. (note to anyone who cares - real military members don't want a draftee anywhere near a uniform) Starting in the mid-80's and continuing until shortly after Desert Storm the military cleaned up its act. Most of the a$$holes who were only there for the benefits (college, etc...) but didn't think they should have to go to war chose to or were forced to get out. With all due respect, this is not your father's military.

Do you currently serve in a branch of one our armed forces?

Whether you do or not, you are remarkably ill informed. The draft in the US ended in 1973. I think that's stretching it just a teensy bit to say that the military's problems in the 70's and 80's were due to draftee's. I guess they all re-upped or something, except then they wouldn't really be draftee's anymore, now would they?

Anyone who enlisted in the military for the past 20 years just for the benefits was a damned fool. Military benefits have been cut and cut again from the 70's on.

One of the finest members of our military whom I have been priviledged to meet is a full blooded Mohawk Indian who served with great honor and courage as a tank commander in the initial wave of assault we sent out in the first Gulf War. He was responsible for saving the lives of 5 survivng men in another of our tanks which had been hit by enemy fire. I read the letters those men wrote him afterward.

After the first Gulf engagement the army went through a period of downsizing and this man was targeted for an involuntary discharge due to an obvious case of racial prejudice by his CO. I helped him with his legal defense and he came out of it with a citation for merit and a fully honorable discharge. Is he one of the a$$holes to whom you refer? The army brass was the a$$hole in his case and many others.

No, this is not my father's military, and its too damn bad its not. He served on the staff of the Inspector General and with General William Westmoreland in Vietnam as well as with Merrill's Marauders in WWII and a$$holes like you wouldn't have even been fit to lick his boots.

[farfromhome]

The trouble with thinking out loud (drunk & alone) is that you assume people know exactly what you mean.
Upon review:When I said "good be...".
I was refering to good health benefits.

Originally posted by farfromhome
The trouble with thinking out loud (drunk & alone) is that you assume people know exactly what you mean.
Upon review:When I said "good be...".
I was refering to good health benefits.

You know, the same thing happened to me with one of my front teeth. I took a fall off my bike and broke my two front teeth. Years later I lost the crown from one and I was positively snaggled toothed. I didn't have the money for a new crown. I called around and found a dentist who was willing to do a temporary patch job for $160.00. Its lasted so far. Can you afford that much? Try to see if there aren't some low cost dental clinics in your area who can help.

[depmats]

Originally posted by marichiko


Do you currently serve in a branch of one our armed forces?

Whether you do or not, you are remarkably ill informed. The draft in the US ended in 1973. I think that's stretching it just a teensy bit to say that the military's problems in the 70's and 80's were due to draftee's. I guess they all re-upped or something, except then they wouldn't really be draftee's anymore, now would they?

Anyone who enlisted in the military for the past 20 years just for the benefits was a damned fool. Military benefits have been cut and cut again from the 70's on.

One of the finest members of our military whom I have been priviledged to meet is a full blooded Mohawk Indian who served with great honor and courage as a tank commander in the initial wave of assault we sent out in the first Gulf War. He was responsible for saving the lives of 5 survivng men in another of our tanks which had been hit by enemy fire. I read the letters those men wrote him afterward.

After the first Gulf engagement the army went through a period of downsizing and this man was targeted for an involuntary discharge due to an obvious case of racial prejudice by his CO. I helped him with his legal defense and he came out of it with a citation for merit and a fully honorable discharge. Is he one of the a$$holes to whom you refer? The army brass was the a$$hole in his case and many others.

No, this is not my father's military, and its too damn bad its not. He served on the staff of the Inspector General and with General William Westmoreland in Vietnam as well as with Merrill's Marauders in WWII and a$$holes like you wouldn't have even been fit to lick his boots.

um, calm the hell down. i wasn't referring to your father or your friend. if you stop and think you would realize that i was saying that yes, bad shit doesn happen in the military, just like anywhere else. but it is the exception, not the standard. if you believe otherwise you are misinformed. as a whole - i would prefer the competency level of 99% of the military units out there over 99% of the civilian companies out there. i was referring to a lot of dipshits who DID stay in after vietnam because there was little to no discipline, it wasn't even uncommon to have soldiers smoking weed in the barracks in the late 70's, early 80's. there were many of them who were drafted but stuck around because they didn't have to do shit. then things started changing, thank god. the brass finally pulled their collective heads out and started cracking down.
and as far as enlisting for the benefits??? travel, medical, 20 year pension, steady, if low, pay, free career training, ability to finish a degree during working hours with tuition assistance, clear-cut promotion track, and for some the idea of SERVING their country. these all sound like benefits to me. some of the people may have even chosen the military over welfare. it is more common than you think. that has obvously dropped since the early 90's but until desert storm there were some people who thought it was just another job where you got a cool uniform. a few months in the desert set most of those people straight. (when i originally went in the military, most of the guys preparing for retirement HAD been drafted but were still there 20 years later. so it isn't foolish to believe that a lot of the screwups were left over draftees. i'm sorry you're friend got dicked with, but there was a massive drawdown via RIF/SSB that was not racially motivated. the cold war was ending and it was time for restructure (obviously they have gone way overboard now, but at the time it was the right idea)
and just so you know - YES i have spent the last 13 years in the military, i am only a reservist these days, but i am still proud of my unit and all the others out there protecting your right to sit at home and declare them incompetent. so get off your high horse and realize that, as intelligent as you are, maybe you don't know everything.

[depmats]

Marichiko - I would like to apologize if I was too much of a dick here, but damn, you pushed the buttons this time.

Originally posted by depmats
Marichiko - I would like to apologize if I was too much of a dick here, but damn, you pushed the buttons this time.

Well, you pushed a few of mine,and if you think I enjoyed sitting at home during the Vietnam conflict when my Dad was serving two tours of duty over there, and it took 10 days for a letter to arrive state-side from 'nam, and anxiously watching the news every night with its body counts and scenes of fire fights and wondering if the next picture that would flash on the screen would be the body of my father dead or wounded, think again.

AS I have stated repeatedly, I have nothing but respect for our individual soldiers, but the DOD and the higher up's in military command pull some pretty out there stunts at times.

[depmats]

Originally posted by marichiko


AS I have stated repeatedly, I have nothing but respect for our individual soldiers, but the DOD and the higher up's in military command pull some pretty out there stunts at times.

And as I said - incompetency is less prevalent in the military than it is in the civilian world. But it will always be present - as long as there are people involved.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Keep in mind when you talk to anyone about their job/company, you're going to hear all the bad shit.
Cowgirl, you're down on the military but your Dad obviously had some respect for it to be a lifer.

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Keep in mind when you talk to anyone about their job/company, you're going to hear all the bad shit.
Cowgirl, you're down on the military but your Dad obviously had some respect for it to be a lifer.

In many ways my Dad DID respect the military, or perhaps more correctly, some (not all) of the commanding officers he served with. I think the military machine, itself left him feeling very frustrated more than once. He spent the last years of his career with the office of the Inspector General, so you gotta figure he saw more screw-ups than most other military men serving in different capacities. Certainly, my father was proud of his 30 years service to our country (and rightly so). He fought in the jungles of Burma, in Korea, and did two tours in Vietnam - one of which co-incided with the bloody Tet offensive. By his second tour he was senior enough to work in MACV with General Westmoreland. MACV was the plexus of the army message center in the Vietnam engagement. He daily read information and intelligence from units fighting in the jungles and saw the response made by the higher ups in Siagon to what was going on. I think this left him feeling very embittered. He put in for retirement soon after his return from that second tour.