Discrimination

[dar512]

Originally posted by sycamore
It's a small price to pay for a mammoth fuck up.

I think it's the wrong solution for a mammoth fuck-up.

I believe strongly in personal responsibility. For example, if an admissions person at your local college passes over entrants because of color/religion/origin that person and their boss should both be fined and/or serve jail time. Ther person for doing it, and the boss because they should know what their people are doing. That puts the negative consequences where they belong - on the perpetrator(s).

Quotas only harm other entrants and continue 'us vs. them' thinking.

I'm interested in hearing how the issue with DaimlerChrysler comes out.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by FelinesAreFine
My people come from Earth.

Actually, I don't claim to have any "people". I have a family: my mom, my husband, sisters, etc. I guess they're my "people".

I'm just sick and tired of everyone wanting to be a victim. "They made me do it" attitudes are cop outs. No one wants to own up to their actions or lack thereof. Come on! Whatever happened to good old fashioned honest work?

Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal? If it TRULY were, we would never have these conversations about race/cultures, etc. It's not about being a victim...truth is spoken when "minorities" talk about hitting the "glass ceiling" on the job because of race or gender, it's not a "myth" when "minorities" get turned down for bank loans and their credit is just as good as their white counterparts, and so on.

There are hundreds of stories out there that people can tell about their personal experiences with racism and IMO, more people need to listen and realize that just because the Civil Right Movement happened, doesn't mean that things are "ok" now. Sure, they are better...certainly, but there is much more work to be done.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by dar512


All those things are evil and the people who did them should be punished. However, I don't think that makes what those boys did wrong.

I was small, weak, and bookish in school - and I got beaten up a number of times. Do I deserve a scholarship for that? Where does it end if we take the view that society owes some group special privileges.

So are you saying that everyone is totally and completely equal now, and need to not worry about being discriminated against at the job, in school, etc.?

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by FileNotFound
Chased down by kids with bats? It's ok, really. Assholes will find a reason not to like you no matter what color you are. Had he been white, they might have chased him down because they thought he was a fag or looked at them the wrong way. Whoop dee doo.

You've obviously never been to Cherry Hill, MD.

Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days.

Hrm...and NOW they have a problem with it NOW that the shoe is on the other foot...amazing...all these years they had been silent, because...their way of life was secure. They didn't have to worry about their job, getting loans, scholarships, housing, and so on. Veddy Interesting...

Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing?

People who share your argument constantly do.

Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.

Again, first hand accounts beats opinion anyday. How many whites do you know that have filed suits against blacks for work discrimination and have won?

Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash.

LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering.

Also, in the 8 or so years that I have been in the US I have NEVER heard a WHITE person call a black person a nigger. It was always the blacks calling each other niggers...or niggahs...

LMAO!OhmyGod, that's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow, I guess because he has never heard a white person call a black person a nigger, THEN IT MUST HAVE NEVER HAPPENED EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND SO IT MUST BE OK!!!!

Quit blowing the idiotic shit out of proportion.

Only until you stop having constant nuclear meltdowns everytime someone disagrees with ya...deal?

The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.

{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."

Yeah I may not have been called a nigger or chased around with bats for being black, because I'm not black; they had to find a diffrent reason. Despite being white, people found just as many reasons not to like me. Oh and in middle school there was this black kid who liked to call me "white Russian shit", why I don't know. It never bothered me much and I never saw it as a "race" thing, I saw it as being "different".

To use your words, "Whoop dee doo". So this means...what? That everyone must react in the same manner as you did?

You're no worse off than I am, black or white, there is always something to hate. Maybe you would have been worse off way back when slavery was perfectly fine, but that was a long time ago, and times change. I don't see the Jews demand compensation from the Egyptians for the pyramids. Deal with it.

Oh believe me, I will...in my own way.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by juju
I think that culturally separating yourself from other people like that actually causes racism.

Racism is caused by people not understanding anything about a culture.They only see the differences and not the similarities. They say, "He ain't like us.. let's git 'im!". If, instead of separating themselves culturally, blacks made an effort to show others that they are just like everyone else, there would be less racism. This would be incredibly easy, since we have a lot more in common that we have different. But instead, blacks take their uniqueness as a sense of empowerment. That's great for them, but what about the people who still don't understand them?

But see, I personally don't think that is "our" problem to correct. If one wants to learn, then they know where to go and what to do in order to learn. They need to talk and communicate, but if there is a feeling of "Oh, I can work with 'those' people, but I don't have to be friends with them or understand them", then that's where the problem lies, and historically that has always been part of the problem. I say that we should learn and RESPECT the differences and not use them as weapons. Also, I strongly believe that until society gets truly honest about differences in others and have truthful dialogue, then will things like racism, sexism, classism and all other bad "isms" will slowly start to dissipate and perhaps even be no more.

With that said, I know it's not really such a black and white issue (ha!), and I think a lot of people <i>have</i> actually realized that there is little to no discernible difference, and racism is much less as a result.

Duly noted...thanks again.

[lumberjim]

Originally posted by dar512


I'm interested in hearing how the issue with DaimlerChrysler comes out.

what issue?

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by wolf
[b]

You've just never been around when I go into my "I'm an American, not a hyphenated one, dammit" speech.

I actually feel strongly about this issue as well.

One of the deals of being an AMERICAN is that our forebears gave up alliegances and ties to their former homes, and embraced this NEW country.

But that's not a strong point in the history of many blacks. Many Africans did not come here willingingly (and no, this is not an argument about who sold whom into slavery...that's not for you Wolf, but in a general context), and many of them did not embrace this country (at least not out of some sense of patriotism...the story of The Amistad speaks of this). Then, there was the issue of not even acknowledging blacks as humans or some such nonsense. Sure, we're acknowledged NOW, but still being disenfranchised in certain areas, so how "American" are we really? I mean in EVERY sense of the word? I say it's mainly by either birthright or being sworn in., but in other areas...hm...not sure if we're there just yet.

I wish my Dad was online...he can state a lot of these types of opinions better than I can.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by russotto
[b]

Well, I guess that answers your own question about where my claim that you said you could only understand racism if you're black comes along.

NO because I go on exact WORDS and I did NOT say that only blacks understood racism. I'm coming from a black point of view, so of COURSE I'm going to make my comments centered around black issues. I certainly can't come from a Latino POV now can I?

[FileNotFound]

Originally posted by ladysycamore


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Originally posted by FileNotFound
Chased down by kids with bats? It's ok, really. Assholes will find a reason not to like you no matter what color you are. Had he been white, they might have chased him down because they thought he was a fag or looked at them the wrong way. Whoop dee doo.
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You've obviously never been to Cherry Hill, MD.

Nope. I bet you've never been to Erlangen, Germany. Whats your point?

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Turned down for a promotion based on race? Oh you poor soul. Well I can say that the white man knows how that feels just as well as the black man these days.
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Hrm...and NOW they have a problem with it NOW that the shoe is on the other foot...amazing...all these years they had been silent, because...their way of life was secure. They didn't have to worry about their job, getting loans, scholarships, housing, and so on. Veddy Interesting...

When has the white man NOT had to worry about jobs? The 50s? I'm sorry but the white man is faced by MORE problems than a black man as far as job security. It's MUCH harder to fire a black man than a white one.

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Did I mention the scholarship/college admission thing?
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People who share your argument constantly do.

And people who share your argument constantly ignore it.

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Well it works for jobs too. Cut that racims bullshit out, it goes both ways. Just as many blacks keep their jobs no matter how shitty they do them and get promoted because the managment is scared shitless that they'll scream "Racism!!!" if they fire or fail to promote the lazy ass.
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Again, first hand accounts beats opinion anyday. How many whites do you know that have filed suits against blacks for work discrimination and have won?

Just because they've never won doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. When people say "racism" they assume whites discriminating blacks. Anyone trying to use racism to describe the inverse will get kicked out of court becasue of affirmative action etc.

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Been called a nigger? Awww. Well it saddening that there is one additional insult people can use on you instead of the more typical, cunt, bitch, slut, whore, but hey at least they can't call you white trash.
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LOL, you're right about that, but however those other insults have no effect on me whatsoever. Actually, bitch seems...almost empowering.

Alright bitch, so what's so bad about nigger? If the black community wants 'nigger' to go away, I suggest they stop using it first.
Imagine if the white community said "Dude" is a BAD BAD BAD RACIST word, you say it, we'll fire you, sue you, ruin your life. The next day on the subway every single white guy says "Hey whats up dude." "How's it hanging dude" "Dude!" But if a black guy says that...oh no! Can't have that! CRUCIFY HIM!!!

But thanks for ignoring my initial point.

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Also, in the 8 or so years that I have been in the US I have NEVER heard a WHITE person call a black person a nigger. It was always the blacks calling each other niggers...or niggahs...
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LMAO!OhmyGod, that's hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wow, I guess because he has never heard a white person call a black person a nigger, THEN IT MUST HAVE NEVER HAPPENED EVER IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND AND SO IT MUST BE OK!!!!

Nope but it must be very rare and not the "The sky is falling" kind of crisis you make it out to be.

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Quit blowing the idiotic shit out of proportion.
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Only until you stop having constant nuclear meltdowns everytime someone disagrees with ya...deal?

- Said she after posting how many replies in a row?

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The racism that goes on is NOTHING along the scales of the discrimination against the gay community and I see nothing along the lines of Scholarships for Fags or the Society of Gay Engineers.
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{sings}"I see your truuuue colors shinin' through...."

Oh I'm gay now? Great. Very mature. And what if I was? Yes? Is that bad? No? Why do you poke fun at it then? Go ahead..tell me. Do you discriminate against gay people?

But thanks for ignoring me once again.

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Yeah I may not have been called a nigger or chased around with bats for being black, because I'm not black; they had to find a diffrent reason. Despite being white, people found just as many reasons not to like me. Oh and in middle school there was this black kid who liked to call me "white Russian shit", why I don't know. It never bothered me much and I never saw it as a "race" thing, I saw it as being "different".
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To use your words, "Whoop dee doo". So this means...what? That everyone must react in the same manner as you did?

Would be nice if they did. I think we'd live in a far happier place.

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You're no worse off than I am, black or white, there is always something to hate. Maybe you would have been worse off way back when slavery was perfectly fine, but that was a long time ago, and times change. I don't see the Jews demand compensation from the Egyptians for the pyramids. Deal with it.
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Oh believe me, I will...in my own way.

Yeah alright..whatever that means...as long as it doesn't invovle a train load of posts in 5 seconds.

[warch]

I've experienced the ugly racism towards "messicans". Based on my looks, I was denied to even be handed a job application for a hotel front desk job, but they would certainly like me in the kitchen. When I informed them that I was not "messican" and also that my ethnic persuasion should really not be a factor, I was reluctantly, nervously ,handed the job application. I took it , but decided I'd rather be in the kitchen anyway (great illegal chorizo tacos). That was 1991, Texas. That was one of countless racist things witnessed. Frankly I was amazed at the tolerance of my latin american pals.

[russotto]

Originally posted by ladysycamore

Nobody is debating honest work. But do you REALLY believe that the playing field is 100% equal?

In legal terms, the playing field is now slanted towards certain favored minorities.

conversations about race/cultures, etc. It's not about being a victim...truth is spoken when "minorities" talk about hitting the "glass ceiling" on the job because of race or gender, it's not a "myth" when "minorities" get turned down for bank loans and their credit is just as good as their white counterparts, and so on.

Ah. So for every "minority" passed over for promotion because of their minority status, a white male at a different job in a different company will be passed over for promotion because of his non-minority status. For every minority turned down for a bank loan because they're a minority, a white man applying at a different bank will be turned down because he's a white man. That's affirmative action for you. And if you don't understand why you don't have to be a racist to object to it, there's no hope for you.

[ladysycamore]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I think the point of the first post was that the kids got busted for promoting a TRUE african-american student for an award that is only eligible to "african-americans".

But he wasn't eligible because he was white.

But wait: I thought he was from South Africa and that they called themselves "Afrikaners" .

And I think that school's policy of only giving the "award" to black kids is disgusting. It PROMOTES continued segregation. If they offer a "black only" award, they better have a "white only" award and an "asian only" reward and a "pacific-islander only" award and an "middle-eastern only" award and while you're at it, make a "half white and half black" and "half black and half asian"........etc. Or else just offer a fuckinig "best student" award.

While I agree, I again find it ironic that after 8 years, someone NOW has a problem with the award:

"The award has been given the last eight years to an outstanding black student as part of the school's Martin Luther King Jr. Day celebration."

So I'd say that the white student doesn't qualify based on the fact that the award is meant for a "black" student. Plus, since many people are so bent on dictionary definitions:

Main Entry: Af·ro-Amer·i·can
Pronunciation: "a-frO-&-'mer-&-k&n
Function: noun
: an American of African and especially of black African descent
- Afro-American adjective

*When you look up "African-American", it directs you to "Afro-American".*

My focus is the "especially of black African descent", because society (for the most part) knowns and understands that Af/American means "black".

Many may not agree with that, but I have yet to hear of a white OR black African who is now an American citizen call themselves "African-American". They normally identify themselves by culture or ethnicity.

It also seems to me that no one didn't have THAT much to say about the term "African-American" in the beginning, but for some reason NOW it causes certain people to have meltdowns galore! If people want to be known as just "Americans" then everyone needs to be treated like one.

[FileNotFound]

So why is it ok to have awards that only black kids are allowed to get but not ok to have awards that only white kids can get?

Where is the equal treatment?

[FelinesAreFine]

Damn, ladysycamore, why do you not see what is obviously happening here? There's all these programs for "minorities and affirmative action, which in reality is legal racism hiding behind political correctness. There's NOTHING for people who are Caucasian. Because if there was, it would be called racism. I know you're going to debate this and get your panties in a bunch. But you can't deny this. You'd be blind and stupid if you did. You've been trying to prove everyone wrong since the beginning of this thread. I don't think you're going to convert anyone to your cause. It's sad to see a country afraid to do what's right because its citizens are afraid to get sued over being called a racist.

[warch]

There's NOTHING for people who are Caucasian.

What a stupid statement.