kids using "bad words"

Flint · 04-24-2006, 12:52 PM

Randon thought. One reason you don't want to teach your kids "bad words" is because they might repeat them in school, and get in trouble. But, isn't this like the rationale that dictates that (adults) smoking pot is "wrong" simply because it's illegal? It doesn't address the central issue: what is the original problem with the behavior? Or, say you don't want your kids to embarass you by saying "bad words" in front of other kid's parents. Same thing. It doesn't address the issue of what is wrong with them uttering certain syllables, other than as a superficial aspect of society, almost a superstition attached to making certain sounds with your mouth.

The only reason I can come up with for not cursing applies to adults as well as children, IE cursing inhibits your ability to express yourself with more meaningful words which represent concepts you had to map out in your head, instead of resorting to catch-phrases. However, I wonder whether many parents are worried that other parents will regard their toddler as eloquent or judge them on their oratory skills.

I'm just thinking about this because I have a baby on the way, and my brother was joking around about how much I curse, and that the baby can hear already hear me. And I was thinking, since we plan to home school our children, who cares if they curse? They won't be getting into any arbitrary "trouble" for using "bad words" - if I can't explain what is wrong with doing it. I don't plan to teach my children anything illogical or useless.

I'm sure their are plenty of holes in this, I just didn't see them when the thought popped into my head. What exactly is the problem with curse words, other than what I pointed out, and shouldn't it apply to adults and children equally?

wolf · 04-24-2006, 01:11 PM

I have been told by quite a few parents, that once the beast is extruded, it's amazing how quickly words like "poopy" and "fudge" become part of your regular vocabulary.

Flint · 04-24-2006, 01:17 PM

Don't "bad words" gain power by the importance we attach to them?

Happy Monkey · 04-24-2006, 01:24 PM

The idea of "bad words" is idiotic, and should be abolished. Of course, being a trailblazer in this respect could cause some annoying and embarrassing public interactions, so it's a tradeoff. At some point you'll have to explain to the kid that while there's nothing wrong with it, there are a lot of folks out there who disagree for some reason, and cursing in front of them could cause a hassle.

In general, I hope somebody does this, but I'd probably advise any individual not to.

jinx · 04-24-2006, 01:29 PM

I see this as falling under the "chose your battles" umbrella. If you have a rule, you need to enforce it - there needs to be consequences for breaking the rule. Punishing my kids for saying a certain word never sat right with me, so I've never done it. "I hate you" or some such is far more concerning to me than "Oh no, mom, you dropped your fucking phone!" - my son, age 2.5

I think it's prudent to teach the concept of "a time and place for everything" as soon as your kid can grasp it (earlier than you might think) which will be reinforced by other's reactions to Jr's new vocabulary.

Flint · 04-24-2006, 01:31 PM

I think you hit on the heart of the matter, Happy Monkey, which is that we are living in a society with certain traditions we may not agree with, but sometimes it behooves us to not rock the boat too much. This is the tightrope walk of the thinking man. Of course, and I'm not saying that this is the case here, but sometimes the boat needs smashing into oblivion. One man almost has to lay his life down, every once in a while, to set things right.

glatt · 04-24-2006, 02:09 PM

I've got little kids, and I wouldn't want mine playing with yours, if yours were swearing like a stevedore. Do you want to ostracise your kids?

Sure, I see your point about how silly it is that some words are "bad." How arbitrary it is. But you and I don't make the rules. Society does. You can fit in, or deal with the consequences. In this case, one of the consequences would be me not letting my kids play with yours. It's up to you to decide if that bothers you.

Flint · 04-24-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

"I hate you" or some such is far more concerning

Well, I hope everyone would be more concerned with that! Of course, the concept of "hate" is a bit misunderstood with alot of people, who seem to believe that it is okay to hate certain people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

it's prudent to teach the concept of "a time and place for everything" as soon as your kid can grasp it (earlier than you might think)

Agreed, agreed again, 100% - I want my kids to be able to think, not just obey.

Munchkin · 04-24-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

I think it's prudent to teach the concept of "a time and place for everything" as soon as your kid can grasp it (earlier than you might think) which will be reinforced by other's reactions to Jr's new vocabulary.

Sounds about right to me. Same with burping and farting

Flint · 04-24-2006, 02:23 PM

@glatt: I didn't say I plan to teach them to swear as much as possible!

This is an issue where I am dwelling more in the region of understanding the underpinnings, at this point, and not so much in the strike out and take action phase. I spend alot of time in the thinking phase of things.

I do think, though, that the possibility exists that simply removing the power from "bad words" might in fact cause my children to swear even less than a child who is rebelling against authority by doing the opposite of what they are told. Or, at worse, they might curse about the same amount. Maybe a little more, who knows?

The thing is, kids are gonna do it anyway, aren't they? I mean, I was smart enough not to get in trouble for using bad words, because I wasn't stupid about doing it in front of the wrong people. As long as my kids understand that, you (as another parent) will never know the difference. And when our children are alone together, they will act just like we acted.

Munchkin · 04-24-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

The thing is, kids are gonna do it anyway, aren't they?

oooh yes. I remember being in kindergarten, on the swings at recess... and just saying over and over again "fuck, fuck, fuck"

Kids do it BECAUSE they're told its "bad"...and often theyll just go crazy with it as soon as they get a chance.

Flint · 04-24-2006, 02:41 PM

I don't want to get suckered into the idea that I have to ingrain my children with all the illogical quirks of society in order to keep them from being freaks. My wife and I are big into doing things because they are right, not because you're supposed to.

jinx · 04-24-2006, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Well, I hope everyone would be more concerned with that! Of course, the concept of "hate" is a bit misunderstood with alot of people, who seem to believe that it is okay to hate certain people.

My point was more about intent than hate actually. A person who repeatedly says "monkeys!" with the intention of being disruptive is more of a problem than a person who says "shit!" when they spill their tea - which is the same (intent) as saying "crap" or "poop", which generally isn't considered a problem at all.

glatt · 04-24-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I do think, though, that the possibility exists that simply removing the power from "bad words" might in fact cause my children to swear even less than a child who is rebelling against authority by doing the opposite of what they are told. Or, at worse, they might curse about the same amount. Maybe a little more, who knows?

It is a balancing act, yes. You don't want to make these words forbidden fruit with the power that goes along with that. I also think you shouldn't give your kids the idea that swearing is just fine. Society frowns on swearing. You don't see the worst words on broadcast TV, although you do see swearing more than when I was a kid. I don't want my kids swearing, so I don't want them hanging around other kids who I can be sure are swearing when my kids are with them.

If my kids start talking about poopheads and stuff like that, I tell them that if they are going to talk that way, they have to go in the bathroom. That's where poop goes, so that's where that language goes too. I make it clear that it's not acceptable, but hopefully it doesn't give those words power.

Flint · 04-24-2006, 02:56 PM

@jinx: So you're saying you would discipline your kids more on the intent or usage of words more than for the words themselves? This sounds like more of a high-level concept with actual relevance in the real world, as it is built in that they have to understand the context of the situation. I think part of this is just being willing to spend the time with your kids to help them understand this stuff, rather than plop them in front of the TV. Speaking of which, the characters on some kids shows say some horrific stuff - without using "bad words".

04-24-2006, 12:52 PM	#1
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	kids using "bad words" Randon thought. One reason you don't want to teach your kids "bad words" is because they might repeat them in school, and get in trouble. But, isn't this like the rationale that dictates that (adults) smoking pot is "wrong" simply because it's illegal? It doesn't address the central issue: what is the original problem with the behavior? Or, say you don't want your kids to embarass you by saying "bad words" in front of other kid's parents. Same thing. It doesn't address the issue of what is wrong with them uttering certain syllables, other than as a superficial aspect of society, almost a superstition attached to making certain sounds with your mouth. The only reason I can come up with for not cursing applies to adults as well as children, IE cursing inhibits your ability to express yourself with more meaningful words which represent concepts you had to map out in your head, instead of resorting to catch-phrases. However, I wonder whether many parents are worried that other parents will regard their toddler as eloquent or judge them on their oratory skills. I'm just thinking about this because I have a baby on the way, and my brother was joking around about how much I curse, and that the baby can hear already hear me. And I was thinking, since we plan to home school our children, who cares if they curse? They won't be getting into any arbitrary "trouble" for using "bad words" - if I can't explain what is wrong with doing it. I don't plan to teach my children anything illogical or useless. I'm sure their are plenty of holes in this, I just didn't see them when the thought popped into my head. What exactly is the problem with curse words, other than what I pointed out, and shouldn't it apply to adults and children equally? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-24-2006, 01:11 PM	#2
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I have been told by quite a few parents, that once the beast is extruded, it's amazing how quickly words like "poopy" and "fudge" become part of your regular vocabulary. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

04-24-2006, 01:17 PM	#3
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Don't "bad words" gain power by the importance we attach to them? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-24-2006, 01:24 PM	#4
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	The idea of "bad words" is idiotic, and should be abolished. Of course, being a trailblazer in this respect could cause some annoying and embarrassing public interactions, so it's a tradeoff. At some point you'll have to explain to the kid that while there's nothing wrong with it, there are a lot of folks out there who disagree for some reason, and cursing in front of them could cause a hassle. In general, I hope somebody does this, but I'd probably advise any individual not to. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

04-24-2006, 01:29 PM	#5
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	I see this as falling under the "chose your battles" umbrella. If you have a rule, you need to enforce it - there needs to be consequences for breaking the rule. Punishing my kids for saying a certain word never sat right with me, so I've never done it. "I hate you" or some such is far more concerning to me than "Oh no, mom, you dropped your fucking phone!" - my son, age 2.5 I think it's prudent to teach the concept of "a time and place for everything" as soon as your kid can grasp it (earlier than you might think) which will be reinforced by other's reactions to Jr's new vocabulary. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

04-24-2006, 01:31 PM	#6
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I think you hit on the heart of the matter, Happy Monkey, which is that we are living in a society with certain traditions we may not agree with, but sometimes it behooves us to not rock the boat too much. This is the tightrope walk of the thinking man. Of course, and I'm not saying that this is the case here, but sometimes the boat needs smashing into oblivion. One man almost has to lay his life down, every once in a while, to set things right. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-24-2006, 02:09 PM	#7
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I've got little kids, and I wouldn't want mine playing with yours, if yours were swearing like a stevedore. Do you want to ostracise your kids? Sure, I see your point about how silly it is that some words are "bad." How arbitrary it is. But you and I don't make the rules. Society does. You can fit in, or deal with the consequences. In this case, one of the consequences would be me not letting my kids play with yours. It's up to you to decide if that bothers you.

04-24-2006, 02:23 PM	#10
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	@glatt: I didn't say I plan to teach them to swear as much as possible! This is an issue where I am dwelling more in the region of understanding the underpinnings, at this point, and not so much in the strike out and take action phase. I spend alot of time in the thinking phase of things. I do think, though, that the possibility exists that simply removing the power from "bad words" might in fact cause my children to swear even less than a child who is rebelling against authority by doing the opposite of what they are told. Or, at worse, they might curse about the same amount. Maybe a little more, who knows? The thing is, kids are gonna do it anyway, aren't they? I mean, I was smart enough not to get in trouble for using bad words, because I wasn't stupid about doing it in front of the wrong people. As long as my kids understand that, you (as another parent) will never know the difference. And when our children are alone together, they will act just like we acted. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-24-2006, 02:41 PM	#12
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I don't want to get suckered into the idea that I have to ingrain my children with all the illogical quirks of society in order to keep them from being freaks. My wife and I are big into doing things because they are right, not because you're supposed to. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

04-24-2006, 02:56 PM	#15
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	@jinx: So you're saying you would discipline your kids more on the intent or usage of words more than for the words themselves? This sounds like more of a high-level concept with actual relevance in the real world, as it is built in that they have to understand the context of the situation. I think part of this is just being willing to spend the time with your kids to help them understand this stuff, rather than plop them in front of the TV. Speaking of which, the characters on some kids shows say some horrific stuff - without using "bad words". __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

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