Disillusionment - Page 2

SteveDallas · 12-03-2003, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
strict Christian tradition does not honor the birth of Christ, because this act, God becoming flesh, debased God, and only the redemption of the Crucifixion restored God's purity.

That's an interesting line of thought. I'm not sure which denominations push this one. It's kind of hard to reconcile with a trinitarian conception (pardon the pun) of a divine Jesus.

FileNotFound · 12-03-2003, 01:37 PM

I'm 6'6" and 240 pounds...

I was always tall and intimidating. I used to play rugby in Australia and in the US the HS football coach said he'd give me $100 if I played the season...I declined cause I hate the football uniforms.

A lot of kids tried to beat me up...as in they never tried it alone. I liked it. The key in fighting multiple people is to keep the rest away from yourself while trying to mess up one of them as much as possible...they see him messed up and will lose all interest in fighting.

None of the fights were related to Santa. Age 5-9 I fought because I openly admited to liking a girl while at that age liking girls is 'uncool'. Anyone who made fun of me or the girl got beat up (badly). There is actualy a semi funny story about this....but thats for another thread. 9-11 I was in Germany with little command of the language, anyone who made fun of my accent or of being Russia or told me to go into the girls bathroom because they claimed it was the boys...got beat up. 12-14 I was in Australia, first people got beat up for making fun of my accent, then I started playing rugby so I had to beat people up for having a ball. 15+ I had few fights because I was in the US and apparently people in the US are pussies. I beat the shit out of a kid for calling me a "retarded masturbating commie homo" everytime he saw me and the next thing I knew my parents were getting called into the school etc. If that happened in Australia people would say "Well DUH. Wtf did you think the guy would do if you called him that?". In the US it's like "OMG!!! He beat the shit out of you and kicked you in the balls?! OMG!!! How terrible!!!" So since I didn't want to deal with the bullshit I stopped beating people up....anywhere near school....and nobody ever gave me shit outside of school.

So in a way I did get 'beat up' a lot but they always got beat up worse. I liked it. Thats what boys are supposed to do as they grow up...prevent other boys from growing up...leaves more girls for us (j/k)

Actually I had quite a bit of respect, although most of the time I felt really insecure and didn't realize that ppl liked me as I was really worried about my origins, my command of the language or the fact that my family never really had that much money.

juju · 12-03-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wolf
If there's no Santa ... why do the presents?

'Cause, it's fun, and that's the holiday tradition.

lumberjim · 12-03-2003, 02:00 PM

DID YOU EVER BEAT UP A LITTLE ITALIAN GUY WITH AMERICAN FLAG SHORTS ON?

juju · 12-03-2003, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lumberjim
kids NEED fantasy.....they LOVE santa.....why deprive them of it? don't you remember the excitement of christmas eve and listening for reindeer on the roof until you finally fell asleep? cmon! you all got over the realization that there was no physical santa. it became a rite of passage, in a sense. "i'm old enough to know about the santa thing...better not tell little sis""

Yes, I see the point here. And like I said, I was presented with this same argument by my wife and gave in.

However, try to see both sides of the story.

Kids are naive and largely ignorant of the world around them. Filling their heads with false information does not help this condition. I'm supposed to teach my child, not exacerbate her ignorance. I value knowledge and truth very highly. I want to impart that to my child. To lie is to go in the complete opposite direction. It's directly opposed to my goals of teaching her about the world.

Of course, there are many circumstances where little lies are okay and probably beneficial. But something so vast as the "Santa Claus" fantasy is WAY beyond a small white lie.

Mostly, think of this as an attempt by me to remain reasonably consistent with my principles.

Dagnabit · 12-03-2003, 02:22 PM

"15+ I had few fights because I was in the US and apparently people in the US are pussies."

Or we're better trained in physics.

Even though a bullet is smaller than a fist it can do more damage because it's faster

SteveDallas · 12-03-2003, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
I'm supposed to teach my child, not exacerbate her ignorance. I value knowledge and truth very highly.

Jeez louise..... next you're gonna say you want her to actually LEARN something in school instead of just sitting there and getting gold stars for handing all the work in on time.

perth · 12-03-2003, 02:25 PM

My plan is to make sure Jamey knows about Santa, and knows that Mommy and Daddy are the ones who put the presents under the tree. I want him to realise that it's neat to think of Santa, and to enjoy all the stories and traditions. I'll read him stories about Santa, and we will go visit Santa at the mall. Its all make-believe, and he knows make-believe is for fun.

I will also try to instill in him that its okay for his friends and classmates to believe, because it's all part of the fun of Christmas. And if he chooses to believe in Santa, despite my telling him that the gifts come from us, thats cool too, because his imagination should be allowed to be as free as he wants.

What I guess it boils down to, is that I won't lie to him, but I won't squash the childlike wonder that I've worked hard to instill in him. I might be expecting more maturity out of him than he can give, but in the end, as long as he's happy that's whats important.

juju · 12-03-2003, 02:28 PM

Hmm... you mean you can really do both?

perth · 12-03-2003, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
Hmm... you mean you can really do both?

Assuming you're referring to my post...

Of course you can. Children have wonderful imaginations. When playing Cowboys and Indians as a kid, I never once thought for a moment that I was really either a cowboy or indian. Whats important to me is that my son knows that Santa is not real, but its fun to pretend.

lumberjim · 12-03-2003, 02:54 PM

party pooper.

my aunt has a kid thats a year older than my son. they taught him that santa was just made up. he's a dick. rude little bastard. coincidence?

perth, i'm not calling your kid a dick

......but he'd better not be wearing a powder blue cardigan

perth · 12-03-2003, 03:17 PM

Did you just call my kid a dick?

Yeah, I'm going to teach him that Santa is make-believe, and make-believe is fun. But I will also teach him that its not nice to go telling that to kids who do believe and that its not nice to act smug when you know something someone else doesn't.

Dagney · 12-03-2003, 03:18 PM

I think the myth of Santa helps keeps kids a little innocent for a little bit longer than they would be otherwise.

I don't have children, and more than likely will not, but my nieces are 10, 11, and 12, and there's nothing like the sparkle in their eyes when they lay out cookies for Santa, and carrots for the reindeer.

I can't see what's wrong with letting them have a little bit of fantasy in their lives when they're young enough to enjoy it.

lumberjim · 12-03-2003, 03:19 PM

allright, perth....I can respect that. We actually had a tricky minute or two making that decision ourselves.......

.....no blue cardigans, though, ok? promise?

perth · 12-03-2003, 03:20 PM

Oh, I forgot about the cookies. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut when he asks...

12-03-2003, 01:37 PM	#17
FileNotFound Intouch with his inner sheep rider. Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 603	I'm 6'6" and 240 pounds... I was always tall and intimidating. I used to play rugby in Australia and in the US the HS football coach said he'd give me $100 if I played the season...I declined cause I hate the football uniforms. A lot of kids tried to beat me up...as in they never tried it alone. I liked it. The key in fighting multiple people is to keep the rest away from yourself while trying to mess up one of them as much as possible...they see him messed up and will lose all interest in fighting. None of the fights were related to Santa. Age 5-9 I fought because I openly admited to liking a girl while at that age liking girls is 'uncool'. Anyone who made fun of me or the girl got beat up (badly). There is actualy a semi funny story about this....but thats for another thread. 9-11 I was in Germany with little command of the language, anyone who made fun of my accent or of being Russia or told me to go into the girls bathroom because they claimed it was the boys...got beat up. 12-14 I was in Australia, first people got beat up for making fun of my accent, then I started playing rugby so I had to beat people up for having a ball. 15+ I had few fights because I was in the US and apparently people in the US are pussies. I beat the shit out of a kid for calling me a "retarded masturbating commie homo" everytime he saw me and the next thing I knew my parents were getting called into the school etc. If that happened in Australia people would say "Well DUH. Wtf did you think the guy would do if you called him that?". In the US it's like "OMG!!! He beat the shit out of you and kicked you in the balls?! OMG!!! How terrible!!!" So since I didn't want to deal with the bullshit I stopped beating people up....anywhere near school....and nobody ever gave me shit outside of school. So in a way I did get 'beat up' a lot but they always got beat up worse. I liked it. Thats what boys are supposed to do as they grow up...prevent other boys from growing up...leaves more girls for us (j/k) Actually I had quite a bit of respect, although most of the time I felt really insecure and didn't realize that ppl liked me as I was really worried about my origins, my command of the language or the fact that my family never really had that much money. __________________ This is a rat. \|This is a hamster.\| This is a chipmunk.\| This is a Sheep Rider.

12-03-2003, 02:00 PM	#19
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	DID YOU EVER BEAT UP A LITTLE ITALIAN GUY WITH AMERICAN FLAG SHORTS ON? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

12-03-2003, 02:54 PM	#26
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	party pooper. my aunt has a kid thats a year older than my son. they taught him that santa was just made up. he's a dick. rude little bastard. coincidence? perth, i'm not calling your kid a dick ......but he'd better not be wearing a powder blue cardigan __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

12-03-2003, 03:18 PM	#28
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	I think the myth of Santa helps keeps kids a little innocent for a little bit longer than they would be otherwise. I don't have children, and more than likely will not, but my nieces are 10, 11, and 12, and there's nothing like the sparkle in their eyes when they lay out cookies for Santa, and carrots for the reindeer. I can't see what's wrong with letting them have a little bit of fantasy in their lives when they're young enough to enjoy it. __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

12-03-2003, 03:19 PM	#29
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	allright, perth....I can respect that. We actually had a tricky minute or two making that decision ourselves....... .....no blue cardigans, though, ok? promise? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

12-03-2003, 02:22 PM	#21
Dagnabit High Propagandist Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 115	"15+ I had few fights because I was in the US and apparently people in the US are pussies." Or we're better trained in physics. Even though a bullet is smaller than a fist it can do more damage because it's faster

12-03-2003, 02:25 PM	#23
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	My plan is to make sure Jamey knows about Santa, and knows that Mommy and Daddy are the ones who put the presents under the tree. I want him to realise that it's neat to think of Santa, and to enjoy all the stories and traditions. I'll read him stories about Santa, and we will go visit Santa at the mall. Its all make-believe, and he knows make-believe is for fun. I will also try to instill in him that its okay for his friends and classmates to believe, because it's all part of the fun of Christmas. And if he chooses to believe in Santa, despite my telling him that the gifts come from us, thats cool too, because his imagination should be allowed to be as free as he wants. What I guess it boils down to, is that I won't lie to him, but I won't squash the childlike wonder that I've worked hard to instill in him. I might be expecting more maturity out of him than he can give, but in the end, as long as he's happy that's whats important.

12-03-2003, 02:28 PM	#24
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Hmm... you mean you can really do both?

12-03-2003, 03:17 PM	#27
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	Did you just call my kid a dick? Yeah, I'm going to teach him that Santa is make-believe, and make-believe is fun. But I will also teach him that its not nice to go telling that to kids who do believe and that its not nice to act smug when you know something someone else doesn't.

12-03-2003, 03:20 PM	#30
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	Oh, I forgot about the cookies. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut when he asks...

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)