Certainty vs. Severity

[Whit]

      Punishment is being discussed in the other thread. Here I'd like to put forth one of my basic beliefs. Certainty vs. Severity. In short I think how harshly you punish a child is less important than how consistently you enforce the rules.
      I'm often told by clerks and shopkeepers how well mannered my kids are. This is mostly because they know that if they act up in public when they're with me they don't want to go home afterwards. By the way, I don't count and I rarely ask anything twice. A suggestion that I'm about to repeat myself is generally enough to snap them to attention.
      This being said these same two kids are often little hellions when they're with their Mom, who punishes them more severly than I. The four of us went out to dinner last week and they shocked me with how ... well ... spastic they were acting. I'd never faced anything like that when they were out with me. However, they do know that Mom has custody and is far more erratic with punishments than I am.
      Which brings me to my next point. Their Mom often complains that I never have to discipline them. Compared to her this is true. She says they just act better for me, though she offers no reasons this might be the case. My opinion is that the kids know I don't give second warnings. One scream without good reason (I hate noisy brats, hurt yourself and cry out fine, screaming for fun ... not in my house) or knocking over of furniture garners an immediate response. I'm never to tired or to busy to lay down the law. Not even the precious 'phone time' when I'm busy with a long distance call will stop me from dealing with my child immediately. More importantly they know it. Thus, I believe the reason they behave is they know with certainty that they will be punished. Because of this I never have to be severe with the punishments.

[Brigliadore]

I think you absolutely right on this one. Growing up my mom made sure I understood the rules, and why she had them. Because I knew them without a doubt and the reason behind them I often didn't need to get punished, because I followed the rules.
What I think is the most important thing when raising kids, is that they have a clear understanding of the rules. That the rules don't change from day to day and that they understand that their parent will not put up with the rules not being followed.

Something my mom always said to me as I was growing up, and it is something that has stuck with me was, " When I ask you to do something you can ask me why, but you cant tell me no".

That to me is the way it should be, a child can ask "why" to have a better understanding of why something is being asked of them, but "no" is not an option.

[Lady Sidhe]

I agree as well...my daughter is two, and she's just discovered the art of throwing temper tantrums. I find that if I encourage her, she tends to quiet down faster, since I'm not giving her the attention she apparantly hopes to get.

It's kinda new for me, being a parent. I never really babysat as a teenager, and as a child, I never had to be disciplined. Of course, I was an only child, raised around adults, so that may have had something to do with it.

Any advice on handling a two-year-old? I adore my daughter, and at times, I probably spoil her, mostly because her daddy doesn't spoil her....

Sidhe

[Brigliadore]

Originally posted by Whit
However, they do know that Mom has custody and is far more erratic with punishments than I am.

I think right here is where you hit the nail on the head. If you let a child get away with something a few times and then punish them only once in a while for it, you get a kid that acts up a lot of the time. Frankly if I liked running around screaming and I only got punished for it 25-40% of the time then heck I am going to do it as often as I want, because the other 60-75% of the time I am not going to get in trouble for it.

[Whit]

From Brig:
That to me is the way it should be, a child can ask "why" to have a better understanding of why something is being asked of them, but "no" is not an option.

      I have a similar policy, for the same reason. However, with me it's "You can ask why after you do it." A simple difference perhaps, but it's my intent to establish clearly that they do what they are told when they are told. Asking why will not delay getting it done. I often let that one slip though. Quite frankly, I tend to answer any question immediately, even if I should be enforcing chores or some such thing. Oh well. It comes from my desire to encourage their natural curiosity.
      I have discovered a nasty side effect. The boy has no respect for any authority whose reason for doing something is, "because I told you so." He's proven himself quite strong willed against a variety of adults. With plenty of clever responses and snappy comebacks. Much to my chagrin. Still, he often makes a few solid points in the midst of major problems. For that he has my respect, even if it does give me a headache...

[zippyt]

Whit said I have discovered a nasty side effect. The boy has no respect for any authority whose reason for doing something is, "because I told you so." He's proven himself quite strong willed against a variety of adults. With plenty of clever responses and snappy comebacks. Much to my chagrin. Still, he often makes a few solid points in the midst of major problems. For that he has my respect, even if it does give me a headache...

It sucks haveing smart kids some time .:p :p

[hampor]

I think it's important to recognize that discipline and punishment are not the same thing. Discipline is about both punishment and rewards and above all, discipline has to be consistent.

My wife and I do our best to have the same policies. The kids are 2 and 4, and the rules are not very complex. I think that the main ones we have are:

If you make a mess you have to at least help clean it up.

No eating in a room with carpet.

If you hit somebody with something, that something will be taken way.

Only grown ups touch medicine.

Even I can memorise that much.

We also have some rewards but they usually aren't candy. Usually it's a Jamaican style thumbs up (i.e. we touch thumbs and then snap them to the side).