Well, This is Going to be a Lousy Situation

[jimhelm]

Originally Posted by Elspode

Just illustrating the breadth of your POV. What is insane to me is perfectly suited to Jim. Don't be offended.

I gotta be honest. I AM offended. What is insane to You is perfectly suited to Me.... Isn't that just reiterating that I'm insane by Your definition? And you say that you're just 'illustrating the breadth of my POV' after stating that it was limited in the previous reply? which is it? just confused... not really bothered. Seems like maybe you're just wriggling because I took exception to what you said to me.

I honestly don't see anything insane about what I said to you there. Or maybe you were just saying that I'm insane in a general way... not specifically about what I said? I know your opinion of me isn't very high..just based on things you've said over the years, but I spent about an hour composing that post, thinking about your situation, and trying to empathize with you. I was not expecting the response to be dismissive and insulting.

I know you have much larger issues to occupy your mind, but I thought I should let you know that this was sticking with me. I'd like to think you intended no offense, and it's just a matter of you thinking I'm a crazy jerk.

I don't really know why that bothers me. I mean.... I knew you thought I was a jerk, but the insane thing? I have to disagree. I'll cop to the jerk part. I know I have been, so I'll own that.

Anyway... I still hope you get through this as easily as possible.

[infinite monkey]

I didn't see anything that would make me think 'insane' in that post either. I thought it was a nice viewpoint from someone who's been there, in the not so distant past. I really don't know why the word is there, but I don't think it was meant maliciously. It was just an odd choice. For what it's worth.

I do hope things are starting to feel better for you, spode.

[glatt]

Jim's was a good post and I didn't think anything about it was insane. But I also assumed that 'splode's using that choice of words was kind of like Bill Murray jovially addressing someone as a "crazy kid" or something like that.

But I hesitate to jump into this because you're both adults who can work this out yourself. So shut up and hug.

[Elspode]

Jim, reading back through it, I think it was just a drunkenly poor choice of a word. Perhaps it would have been better to say that what you'd written was both on target yet wildly off. Sure, I've mulled over some self-recrimination, but I've pretty much considered it and let it go. The collapse of things was a mutual event, not my fault and only mine, so I'm no more or less culpable than she is.

You are correct...no one, including me, knows why the fuck she chose to exit the way she did. I don't think it's because she's evil. I think it's because she's chickenshit, and that was the quickest way to get out of having to deal with me over the collapse of our finances and household. She herself has compared it to "ripping off a bandaid", stating that it would have been much more painful and hard on both of us to try and gradually get our shit separated and go our separate ways with a plan. I can sort of see that, but I still don't think it justifies the fucking shock I got, or justifies the fact that there are so many things that we fucked up together than I will now have to unfuck on my own, since she's copped out, or justifies the total lack of input I got on how things were divided, etc, etc. It's kinda like she's pissed on the toilet seat and left it wet, knowing I'd have to sit on it.

Far be it from me to tell someone they're insane, though.

[Elspode]

Met with Selene tonight for the first time since her departure. Compared to her, I think I'm at least in a better emotional place. We both have some tough roads ahead of us, but I'm mostly moved in with someone who loves me and who has been busting her ass on my behalf, so I feel rather blessed, all things considered.

Selene and I seem to have arrived at some mutual agreement on how to divide the debts. Basically, I'll get them all except her student loan debt, but I'll be able to either pay them off, or get them massively reduced or eliminated through the inevitable bankruptcy.

And so it goes.

[DucksNuts]

Why do you get all the debt, 'spode? How do you "mutually agree" for you to get all the debt accumulated during your relationship.

Im still pissy on your behalf, whether its what you want or not.

I do love the fact that you have a strong women like TF in your corner and wonderful friends.

[Elspode]

I get all the debt...except $55k in student loans. :-)

[kerosene]

And student loans are non-dischargeable, so I think he has the better end of the deal, here.

[Elspode]

Even *she* said that, and I am inclined to agree.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Elspode

I get all the debt...except $55k in student loans. :-)

Why?

[classicman]

Still her student loans are *HERS* alone. That wouldn't be considered mutual debt unless you signed off on them (I believe)
That shouldn't even be on the table.
Idealistically it should be 1/2 of whatever debt the two of you accrued together/2.

Jus sayin.

[ZenGum]

I agree with classic. I'd also be deducting the money you paid her in the last few months for rent and utilities which she apparently embezzled.

But if, as you say, bankruptcy is inevitable, #$%& it, take on all dischargable debt and scuttle the lot.

[Aliantha]

It just really sucks that you have to go through this Els. I really hope that when the dust settles you really are in a better place emotionally, physically and financially.

love.

xx

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by classicman

Still her student loans are *HERS* alone. That wouldn't be considered mutual debt unless you signed off on them (I believe)
That shouldn't even be on the table.
Idealistically it should be 1/2 of whatever debt the two of you accrued together/2.

Jus sayin.

I think it might come under the "the loans allowed her to get the job which allowed her to contribute to the lifestyle to which 'Spode had become accustomed, Your Honor" argument. Not sure, though.

'Spode, who owns the house? Will there be a profit from its sale?

[infinite monkey]

Student loans and bankruptcy:

Student loans are difficult, but not impossible, to discharge in bankruptcy. To do so, you must show that payment of the debt “will impose an undue hardship on you and your dependents.”

UNDUE HARDSHIP EXAMPLES

It is up to the court to decide whether you meet the “undue hardship” standard. Here are a few examples of successful and unsuccessful cases.

1.A 58 year old I.R.S. employee making about $38,000/year was able to get his loans discharged. He had taken out the loans to attend a chiropractic program which he never completed. His overall expenses were about equal to his income. He was able to show that it was unlikely that his income would increase until his planned retirement at age 65. He was single with no dependents and had health problems. The court found that he had acted in good faith even though he had never made any voluntary student loan payments.
2.A college-educated married couple proved undue hardship and were able to discharge their loans. They both worked, but had income barely above poverty level. The court noted that the borrowers worked in worthwhile, although low-paying careers. One worked as a teacher’s aide and the other as a teacher working with emotionally disturbed children. Even with a very frugal budget, they had $400 more a month in expenses than income. Their expenses included $100 monthly tuition to send their daughter to private school. Relatives paid for most of this and the couple testified that they objected to the public school’s corporeal punishment policy. In agreeing to discharge the loans, the court also found that the couple had acted in good faith because they asked about the possibility of a more affordable repayment plan. Not all courts are as sympathetic to borrowers who work in low-paying careers. For example, one borrower was denied a discharge because he worked as a cellist for an orchestra and taught music part-time. The court suggested that this borrower could find higher-paying work. Another court came up with the same result for a pastor. The court found that it was the borrower’s choice to work as a pastor for a start-up church rather than try to find a higher paying job.
3.A number of courts have granted discharges in cases where the borrower did not benefit from the education or went to a fraudulent school.
4.There have been mixed results when borrowers have tried to show that their financial difficulties will persist into the future. For example, one court found that a borrower’s alcoholism was not an insurmountable problem, but some borrowers have won these cases. In one case, a borrower’s testimony about her mental impairment, including evidence that she received Social Security benefits, was enough to convince the court of undue hardship. The court agreed with the borrower that her ongoing mental illness was likely to continue to interfere with her ability to work.

Article here for more info:

http://www.studentloanborrowerassist...rg/bankruptcy/