06/03/03: Is being gay a choice?

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by a case study
Well, yes, but it was provoked.

No, it wasn't. We didn't know that the subject of this thread was reading it. People talk differently about people when they don't think they're around. We were being frank with Juju and the subject in general to make our points.

The point remains, you should have mentioned up front that the question was about you, and can't become upset at comments made beforehand.

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by wolf
When it all comes down to it, isn't that a lot of what counts?

I'm heartened to hear from someone who, based on this brief contact, seems to regard marriage not as something that is disposable, but as something that should be, and deserves to be, worked on.

Wolf makes a good point here. You have to decide what is important to you in a marriage.

However, the sooner you accept one single fact, the sooner you can get yourself out of your problem: your husband will never lust after you. No amount of counselling, religious or otherwise, will change that. It's not that he isn't "trying hard enough".

It's also important to realize that his lack of lust isn't your fault. Don't blame yourself. We cannot choose whom we lust after. We can't choose what gets us going. And I think deep down, you must agree with that. Think of whatever it is that turns you on, whether it's big hulky men, guys in tidy whities, whatever. Do you think you could change that, if you could just try hard enough? Of course not.

Now, it's time to decide what's important to you in a marriage. Some people can live without their partner lusting after them. Some people can live without their lust ever being fulfilled. Some can't. It all depends which category you fall into.

A counselor may help each of you decide what it is that you want, and what you're willing to give up to get it. But they won't be able to un-gay your husband.

[Undertoad]

Also, frankly, calling 5-10% of the population "diseased" is also sanctimonious name-calling. On behalf of my gay friends, whose heads you obviously don't understand, it seems you have earned your way into your situation and don't deserve much sympathy.

Ditto for the approach of desperately needing advice, relying on an anonymous message board for it, and not liking what you hear and flying off the handle.

This is a very blunt situation and it requires blunt thinking, blunt language.

If you want to know how heterosexuality operates in the real world, post your picture to certain Usenet groups. There are any number of men willing to decorate it with man-juice and post it back to prove their sexual response to your image. Rude -- un-called-for -- maybe even on the edge of deviant. But male sexual response is like that: immediate, driven by visual stimulation, sometimes stronger than common decency.

[Tobiasly]

Originally posted by Undertoad
If you want to know how heterosexuality operates in the real world, post your picture to certain Usenet groups.

Yeah, nice try Toad, you perv! She's not gonna send you her picture, so just give up!

[MaggieL]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce
Maggie, so you feel if he has any doubts surface about being hetro he just feels he's failing his religion and must work harder rather than face reality?

It's hard to tell what *he's* feeling...if he's mounted a 24/7 effort to repress his sexuality, he's probably not feeling much of anything. The info we have is that *she* feels that way.

But putting that tight a cork on his feelings is not something that can last forever. My guess is if something external doesn't cause him to realize who he truly is and begin to act in harmony with that, the whole situation will end in something ugly.

Originally posted by a case study
I am saying precisely that. It's not a disease

Then you liken it to cancer why?

Do you think someone can will themselves to be cancer-free? What exactly are you getting on about?

Being gay is just that - being gay. It's not a choice, it's not a disease, it just is. Just like you like men, so does he. He obviously loves you as a person and doesn't want to hurt you, but him not liking sex is a pretty serious issue if he's actually now straight (after making the choice and all).

I couldn't choose to like men. I just couldn't choose that. It's not how I'm wired. It's not how anyone is wired. You either like guys or you like girls or you like both, and that's the way it is.

Welcome to the real world, where people use harsh language. I don't really give a fuck if it offends you or if you think I'm right, because I'm happy in my relationship, both emotionally and sexually. Whether or not you get some dickin' has no effect on me whatsoever. Be happy that others here are taking their time to give you advice. We sure as shit don't have to, because we have nothing to gain.

Or maybe you can take the fucking blinders off your eyes and approach your situation with an open mind - and be thankful that enough people give a shit to bother offering advice about your miserable situation.

[Undertoad]

Damn Tob, I'm all outta material.

[a case study]

Okay. You guys make some valid points. Some of this I'm sure I've been in denial about, some of it I haven't wanted to think about, and some of it I'm not sure I believe.

With all these comments in mind, I'm going to find a counselor and try to find where I belong in all of this.

Thank you, and thank you Juju. Please take this thread down.

J

[hot_pastrami]

Anaolgies are as bad as statistics when it comes to twisting them to prove a point. Cancer? Come on. Homosexuality is not a disease, it's not life-or-death, and cancer cells can't be removed by making a lifestyle choice (assuming you believe that there really is a choice).

If you have a question that is difficult to ask, expect an answer that is difficult to hear.

[juju]

My threads are like my children. I can't just kill them off! I'll close the thread, though. Hope that's good enough.

Thanks for your opinions, everyone! If you want to know Case Study better, maybe we can convince her to post in the regular forums.