8/25/2003: French violence against women

Undertoad · 08-25-2003, 11:06 AM

This one comes from the summer doldrums. It's become extra hard to find news images that are compelling just on their own right now, so we go to plan "B" with images that are compelling through their explanation. Ordinary photo, extraordinary circumstance.

This is beloved French actress Marie Trintignant as she prepared to work on a documentary for French TV. She's dead now.

And an autopsy now shows that she was, in fact, killed by her boyfriend with a combination of blows from his fist and head butts.

I wonder if she will become the new poster woman for anti-violence campaigns, because as the caption notes, the news has unleashed an outcry over domestic violence in France -- where one in 10 women is beaten at home.

Now here's the completely unfair, biased, one-sided part of my post. They are now revising upwards the number of dead in France from last week's heat wave: it's headed over 13,000. It turns out Chirac himself was on a three-week sunbathing vacation while his country broiled to death. I don't take any glee from all this pain, but often hard leftists (i.e., not Sycamore) say that the long run goal of compassionate government policies is to produce a more compassionate society. After this week, I'm skeptical: 13,000 dead and 1 in 10 women facing domestic violence is not a compassionate society... unless you count the compassion of the mourners.

glatt · 08-25-2003, 11:25 AM

What's your point about Chirac? It may not look good that he's off on vacation, but what can he really do about the heat wave? He has no control over the weather.

08-25-2003, 11:48 AM

What I have taken from what he said, and what I interpret his point to be, is that a good leader won't be off vacationing while his people are toiling through an extraordinarily hot summer (to them, anyway - try Mississippi or Texas!). Whether or not he could be doing anything (perhaps organizing, say, lots of ice water for the people, though I understand public relations type things like this are the President's job and not the Prime Minister's) or not is sort of irrelevant; what it <b>looks like</b> is him enjoying his life because of his prestige while the normal people suffer back home.

Now, as far as a compassionate society, I think what he was trying to say is that a really compassionate leader would be suffering with his country, showing them that they're all in this together and they'll beat it together.

(On a side note, I don't understand why everyone's dying. It gets real hot here all the time. Big deal. Drink more fluids and stay inside, people!)

elSicomoro · 08-25-2003, 01:03 PM

The situation in France this summer appears to be very similar to that in Chicago in 1995: an unusually hot summer in a place where many people don't have air conditioning. And the average high in June and July in France is 75...I believe this was the hottest summer there in 40 years.

And while Chirac couldn't have predicted the weather, he should have been in France while this was going on. Imagine if Dubya was at the ranch in Texas on 9/11 and just stayed there. It's more of a psychological boost than anything.

warch · 08-25-2003, 01:19 PM

Traditional French sayings:
"If woman were good, God would have had one"
"Women are taught by nature, men by books."
"three girls and their mother, four demons for their father."
"The eye of a woman is a spider's web."

but we know they aint true. Right?

mitheral · 08-25-2003, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dave

(On a side note, I don't understand why everyone's dying. It gets real hot here all the time. Big deal. Drink more fluids and stay inside, people!)

It's all what you are used to and know how to deal with. Us Great White Northers laugh our asses off every time Alabama gets barely enough snow to make a foot print. Try to imagine the carnage in Texas or Mississippi if it were to drop to -5 for a couple weeks. It's basicly equivalent going the other way if you figure comfortable room temperature is about 18-20.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-25-2003, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by warch
Traditional French sayings:
"If woman were good, God would have had one"
"Women are taught by nature, men by books."
"three girls and their mother, four demons for their father."
"The eye of a woman is a spider's web."

but we know they aint true. Right?

Truisms?:p

gossard187 · 08-25-2003, 06:27 PM

What I'm not sure about is the number 13000. I think this number is inflated. How many deaths are attributed to heat when it could have been other issues. Meanwhile there is another euro country in the same heatwave (I apologize I don't recall who it was) and they have recorded zero deaths due to heat - simply because they aren't labelling them that way. Maybe someone is ill or otherwise and the heat didn't help, but not necessarily dying just because its so hot.

jaguar · 08-25-2003, 09:00 PM

What does the heatwave have to do with violence against french women? What does deaths from a heatwave have to do with whether or not a society is compassionate? Apart from the fact they're all in France what does any of this have in common? Death?

quzah · 08-25-2003, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
And while Chirac couldn't have predicted the weather, he should have been in France while this was going on. Imagine if Dubya was at the ranch in Texas on 9/11 and just stayed there. It's more of a psychological boost than anything.

I love this. You're right though, 9/11 was no more a terrorist attack than a heat wave is.

But that aside, this is absurd. So you're saying just because you suffer, everyone else should? So on that note, everyone should go visit France in this time of hotness, so we can all suffer too. Furthermore, everyone should unplug their air conditioners, because there might be some people who don't have one.

I mean really, it's not fair that your neighbor should have AC while you don't! It's your own damn fault you were too stupid not to buy AC. Hey, they better also issue recalls to everyone in France's passports. Because we don't want anyone else to get out of Heatsville!

Trap those fuckers in there! Do DNA and heritage tests! Anyone even remotely French should get their ass over to France so they can suffer too!

All for one and one for all!

Give me a break.

Quzah.

elSicomoro · 08-25-2003, 11:16 PM

Looks like someone's imagination got away from them...

I personally don't give a shit if he was on vacation, and I imagine a lot of French didn't care either. But I do think it looks bad...you're the leader of a country that currently has hundreds or thousands of people dead, and you're off on holiday.

Hell, even Kofi cut his vacation short after the UN bombing.

quzah · 08-25-2003, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
But I do think it looks bad...you're the leader of a country that currently has hundreds or thousands of people dead, and you're off on holiday.

You must not watch the Simpsons. The mayor is always out of the city. It's supposed to work like that.

Quzah.

Griff · 08-26-2003, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by gossard187
What I'm not sure about is the number 13000. I think this number is inflated. How many deaths are attributed to heat when it could have been other issues. Meanwhile there is another euro country in the same heatwave (I apologize I don't recall who it was) and they have recorded zero deaths due to heat - simply because they aren't labelling them that way. Maybe someone is ill or otherwise and the heat didn't help, but not necessarily dying just because its so hot.

That was my reaction as well.

elSicomoro · 08-26-2003, 08:16 AM

The number sounds high to me--that's a lot of dead people. But when you look at the numbers like this...

About 525 people died in Chicago in 1995 (Univ. of Illinois)...from what I recall, almost all (if not all) the deaths occurred within the city limits. With a population of about 2.8 million at the time, that's 1 death for every 5600 residents.

The entire nation of France seemed to get beat down by this heat wave. Going with 13,000 dead (as I said, this sounds a bit high to me at this point) and a population of roughly 59.2 million in France (US State Dept.), that's 1 death for every 4553 residents. Knock that number down to 10,000 and it goes down to 1 death for every 5920 residents.

Just on this alone, it seems plausible that there could have been this many heat-related deaths...but like gossard said, it's all in the labeling: I would imagine a good number of deaths were due to heart and lung ailments and dehydration.

juju · 08-26-2003, 09:24 AM

Well, I guess it's come down to this... we must outlaw heat! This can be most efficiently done by destroying the sun. If not for ourselves, then for the children. The poor, miserable children. Won't someone think of them?

08-25-2003, 11:06 AM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	8/25/2003: French violence against women This one comes from the summer doldrums. It's become extra hard to find news images that are compelling just on their own right now, so we go to plan "B" with images that are compelling through their explanation. Ordinary photo, extraordinary circumstance. This is beloved French actress Marie Trintignant as she prepared to work on a documentary for French TV. She's dead now. And an autopsy now shows that she was, in fact, killed by her boyfriend with a combination of blows from his fist and head butts. I wonder if she will become the new poster woman for anti-violence campaigns, because as the caption notes, the news has unleashed an outcry over domestic violence in France -- where one in 10 women is beaten at home. Now here's the completely unfair, biased, one-sided part of my post. They are now revising upwards the number of dead in France from last week's heat wave: it's headed over 13,000. It turns out Chirac himself was on a three-week sunbathing vacation while his country broiled to death. I don't take any glee from all this pain, but often hard leftists (i.e., not Sycamore) say that the long run goal of compassionate government policies is to produce a more compassionate society. After this week, I'm skeptical: 13,000 dead and 1 in 10 women facing domestic violence is not a compassionate society... unless you count the compassion of the mourners.

08-25-2003, 09:00 PM	#9
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	What does the heatwave have to do with violence against french women? What does deaths from a heatwave have to do with whether or not a society is compassionate? Apart from the fact they're all in France what does any of this have in common? Death? __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

08-25-2003, 11:16 PM	#11
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Looks like someone's imagination got away from them... I personally don't give a shit if he was on vacation, and I imagine a lot of French didn't care either. But I do think it looks bad...you're the leader of a country that currently has hundreds or thousands of people dead, and you're off on holiday. Hell, even Kofi cut his vacation short after the UN bombing. Last edited by elSicomoro; 08-25-2003 at 11:34 PM.

08-25-2003, 11:25 AM	#2
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	What's your point about Chirac? It may not look good that he's off on vacation, but what can he really do about the heat wave? He has no control over the weather.

08-25-2003, 11:48 AM	#3
dave Guest Posts: n/a	What I have taken from what he said, and what I interpret his point to be, is that a good leader won't be off vacationing while his people are toiling through an extraordinarily hot summer (to them, anyway - try Mississippi or Texas!). Whether or not he could be doing anything (perhaps organizing, say, lots of ice water for the people, though I understand public relations type things like this are the President's job and not the Prime Minister's) or not is sort of irrelevant; what it <b>looks like</b> is him enjoying his life because of his prestige while the normal people suffer back home. Now, as far as a compassionate society, I think what he was trying to say is that a really compassionate leader would be suffering with his country, showing them that they're all in this together and they'll beat it together. (On a side note, I don't understand why everyone's dying. It gets real hot here all the time. Big deal. Drink more fluids and stay inside, people!)

08-25-2003, 01:03 PM	#4
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The situation in France this summer appears to be very similar to that in Chicago in 1995: an unusually hot summer in a place where many people don't have air conditioning. And the average high in June and July in France is 75...I believe this was the hottest summer there in 40 years. And while Chirac couldn't have predicted the weather, he should have been in France while this was going on. Imagine if Dubya was at the ranch in Texas on 9/11 and just stayed there. It's more of a psychological boost than anything.

08-25-2003, 01:19 PM	#5
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Traditional French sayings: "If woman were good, God would have had one" "Women are taught by nature, men by books." "three girls and their mother, four demons for their father." "The eye of a woman is a spider's web." but we know they aint true. Right?

08-25-2003, 06:27 PM	#8
gossard187 Caste-Away Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Palo Alto Posts: 48	What I'm not sure about is the number 13000. I think this number is inflated. How many deaths are attributed to heat when it could have been other issues. Meanwhile there is another euro country in the same heatwave (I apologize I don't recall who it was) and they have recorded zero deaths due to heat - simply because they aren't labelling them that way. Maybe someone is ill or otherwise and the heat didn't help, but not necessarily dying just because its so hot.

08-26-2003, 08:16 AM	#14
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	The number sounds high to me--that's a lot of dead people. But when you look at the numbers like this... About 525 people died in Chicago in 1995 (Univ. of Illinois)...from what I recall, almost all (if not all) the deaths occurred within the city limits. With a population of about 2.8 million at the time, that's 1 death for every 5600 residents. The entire nation of France seemed to get beat down by this heat wave. Going with 13,000 dead (as I said, this sounds a bit high to me at this point) and a population of roughly 59.2 million in France (US State Dept.), that's 1 death for every 4553 residents. Knock that number down to 10,000 and it goes down to 1 death for every 5920 residents. Just on this alone, it seems plausible that there could have been this many heat-related deaths...but like gossard said, it's all in the labeling: I would imagine a good number of deaths were due to heart and lung ailments and dehydration.

08-26-2003, 09:24 AM	#15
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Well, I guess it's come down to this... we must outlaw heat! This can be most efficiently done by destroying the sun. If not for ourselves, then for the children. The poor, miserable children. Won't someone think of them?

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