The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Home Base

Home Base A starting point, and place for threads don't seem to belong anywhere else

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-16-2004, 06:00 PM   #1
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Miami soldier resists: 'This war is evil'

Posted on Tue, Mar. 16, 2004



Miami soldier resists: 'This war is evil'
A Florida National Guard soldier from Miami who served six months in Iraq refuses to return and seeks conscientious objector status.
BY FRANK DAVIES
fdavies@herald.com

SHERBORN, Mass. - A Miami soldier who served six months in Iraq and then refused to return after a leave said Monday ''I can no longer be an instrument of violence,'' and turned himself in to military authorities.

Staff Sgt. Camilo Mejia, a National Guard infantryman for five years after three years of active Army duty, explained his decision to seek conscientious objector status at an event organized by peace activists.

''I am not against the military. The military has been my family,'' said Mejia, 28. ``My commanders are not evil but this war is evil. I did not sign up for the military to go halfway around the world to be an instrument of oppression.''

Then, joined by family, supporters and his lawyers, he walked to the gates of Hanscom Air Force Base outside Boston. Activists cheered him as heavily armed soldiers took Mejia inside.

Although he surrendered in Massachusetts, ''the military honored my integrity,'' Mejia said, allowing him to return to his unit.

Mejia arrived at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport just after 10 p.m. Monday and was immediately surrounded by several reporters and photojournalists.

Asked about his decision not to return to Iraq, Mejia responded ``I don't think we're fighting terror in Iraq. I think we're fighting for oil.''

Flanked by his mother and aunt, Mejia said he would turn himself in to his unit in North Miami, Charlie Company of the 124th Battalion, at 10 a.m. today.

Monday night, his plans were simple: `I'm just going to take a hot shower, get some dinner.''

A spokesman for the Florida National Guard, Lt. Co. Ron Tittle, said late Monday no decision had been made yet whether to charge Mejia.

''We're glad he turned himself in,'' Tittle said, adding that Army officials at Fort Stewart, Ga., and the Pentagon would decide how to handle the case.

Mejia, who grew up in Nicaragua, moved to Miami as a teenager with his mother, Maritza Castillo, and became a permanent resident.

He was studying psychology at the University of Miami.

Both parents strongly oppose the Iraq war. His father, Carlos Mejia Godoy, is a prominent songwriter, performer and activist in Managua. He was a cultural ambassador for the Sandinista government who denounced U.S. intervention in Nicaragua.

''I did not want him to go to Iraq,'' Castillo said. ``But this is his decision today, his conscience.''

The soldier's lawyers, Louis Font and Tod Ensign, said Mejia could be a ''test case'' of Iraqi war policy, because they know of no other resisters who served in Iraq, refused to return and then turned themselves in. Font will seek an administrative discharge for Mejia, based on his applying for conscientious objector status.

Font said he was relieved the Army decided against pre-trial confinement for Mejia while officials study the case.

Mejia said his decision was ''a very personal one,'' after experiencing six months of guerrilla warfare in the Sunni triangle of Iraq, where resistance to U.S. occupation has been the most fierce.

He recalled several ambushes in which other soldiers were wounded, the ''bad guys'' got away and ''innocent Iraqis'' were killed in crossfires.

''At the time, you are doing your job and you go with the flow,'' Mejia said. ``But you see people dying every day. I can't tell you there was one day I woke up and said I am against the war.''

''I don't think it is a moral war,'' he added later.

During a two-week leave in October, Mejia decided not to return to Iraq.

In the next few months he spent most of his time in New York, ''living like a criminal,'' wondering if military police would come for him.

Surrounded by peace activists, Mejia explained how he reached his decision after serving eight years in the military:

``I signed up because I wanted to be part of this nation, and the military was at the very heart of the United States. I was very young (19), and was just starting to form my identity, values and principles.''

Mejia also criticized the Iraq invasion as ``a war for oil, based on lies -- lies about weapons of mass destruction, and connections between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda.''

This week marks the first anniversary of the start of the war, and Mejia's news conference was one of several events clearly designed for political impact.

Mejia was joined by Auxiliary Bishop Thomas Gumbleton of Detroit, who said the soldier's ''courageous stand'' was in the tradition of St. Francis of Assisi.

A group called Military Families Speak Out, which opposes the war and claims 1,300 participants, helped organize the event and staged vigils Monday outside the White House and Walter Reed Army Medical Center, where hundreds of those wounded in Iraq have been treated.

Herald staff writers Phil Long, Elaine de Valle and Hannah Sampson and researcher Elisabeth Donovan contributed to this report.
__________________
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
- George Carlin
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 12:53 AM   #2
wolf
lobber of scimitars
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Phila Burbs
Posts: 20,774
At least he turned himself in ...
WTF did the guy think he was going to be doing in the Army? Building levees? Teaching math? Other crap that 's part of the advertising campaign? It's the ARMY.
__________________
wolf eht htiw og

"Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island

High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis
wolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 04:24 AM   #3
justme
Belt Conveyor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 66
''I don't think it is a moral war,'' he added later."

He should know that from the beginning.

" This week marks the first anniversary of the start of the war, and Mejia's news conference was one of several events clearly designed for political impact."

Just in proper time.

Before, "In the next few months he spent most of his time in New York, ''living like a criminal,'' wondering if military police would come for him."

He didn't want "to be an instrument of oppression", but now he is an instrument of political games.
justme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 06:38 AM   #4
Happy Monkey
I think this line's mostly filler.
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 13,575
Quote:
Originally posted by wolf
At least he turned himself in ...
WTF did the guy think he was going to be doing in the Army? Building levees? Teaching math? Other crap that 's part of the advertising campaign? It's the ARMY.
He thought that if he ended up in a war, it would be one that he felt was justified.
__________________
_________________
|...............| We live in the nick of times.
| Len 17, Wid 3 |
|_______________| [pics]
Happy Monkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 07:05 AM   #5
Slartibartfast
|-0-| <-0-> |-0-|
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 516
A soldier has the right to not act on commands s/he believes are immoral. This guy is 100% okay in his action.
Slartibartfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 07:14 AM   #6
justme
Belt Conveyor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 66
why he's been ''living like a criminal'' for few month? What for ?
justme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 07:20 AM   #7
blue
Operations Operative
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Northern WI
Posts: 739
I saw this guy being interviewed and came away with the impression that he just plain didn't want to go back, then after a bit of hiding out came up with the whole "immoral war" crap.

I may or may not agree with the war, and I may or may not advise people to join the military for different reasons, but this dickwad was a volunteer, and took an oath.

He may find out very soon that Iraq is not so bad compared to military prison.
__________________
If you spot a tornado, always remember to point at it, yell "tornado!", and run like hell.
blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 08:34 AM   #8
BryanD
Rouser of rabble
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 35
The time to say what he said was while he was over there, with his unit, doing his job.

Waiting until he got home, and was late in reporting back indicates that he just didnt want to go back (didn't like the food, hated his bunkmates, was afraid of getting his ass shot off) and was looking for an excuse.
BryanD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 09:36 AM   #9
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
WTF did the guy think he was going to be doing in the Army?
Maybe he thought he would be DEFENDING America rather than violating the Constitution (which also violates his oath) and attacking non-threatening countries that never attacked us.

I think you should all take note that he was in the service for 8 years and was staff seargant. He knew all about the military and wasn't some kid who was afraid to fight. He just wanted to fight on the side of the good guys and in this case he wasn't.

Quote:
He should know that from the beginning.
I agree. I would have refused to go in the first place, but maybe he believed Bush until he got there and saw for himself we had no place in Iraq.

Quote:
A soldier has the right to not act on commands s/he believes are immoral. This guy is 100% okay in his action.
Here Here! I couldn't agree more.

Quote:
why he's been ''living like a criminal'' for few month? What for ?
I don't think they mean he's been committing armed robbery. I think they mean he's been living like a fugative because he was AWOL.

Quote:
I may or may not agree with the war, and I may or may not advise people to join the military for different reasons, but this dickwad was a volunteer, and took an oath.
Yes, he did take an oath and by going to Iraq he would be violating that oath. Every soldier in Iraq is violating their oath to uphold and defend the Constitution. At least this guy is honoring his oath unlike those people.

Quote:
The time to say what he said was while he was over there, with his unit, doing his job.
His "job" is DEFENDING American soil from attack, not invading non-threatening sovereign nations that have never harmed us and overthrowing the leadership of nations our president doesn't like. And I think his timing was pretty good. He needs to get the word out there that this war is wrong and not everyone taking part in it thinks its a good idea.
__________________
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
- George Carlin
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 09:38 AM   #10
Clodfobble
UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 20,012
In the article I read somewhere else (I think maybe CNN), things were phrased much differently and many fewer quotes from him were in there. It made it sound like he was doing just dandy, fighting and doing his job, when a single incident occurred where lots of civilians and children got shot and that messed him up in the head such that he couldn't handle going back again.

Clearly from his quotes that's not what happened at all. I hate the media.
Clodfobble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 09:54 AM   #11
Troubleshooter
The urban Jane Goodall
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,012
Quote:
Originally posted by Slartibartfast
A soldier has the right to not act on commands s/he believes are immoral. This guy is 100% okay in his action.
A soldier/sailor/marine/whatever does not have the right to igonore an order.

What he does have is the option of doing is following up with command after the fact. His unwillingness to act may cause a loss of life. He is generally not in possession of enough information to make that decision.

In this case, he is still breaking the UCMJ, but at least it wasn't in combat.

Edit: friggin' typos
__________________
I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law. - Aristotle
Troubleshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 09:58 AM   #12
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
A soldier DOES have the right to refuse a direct order if that order is unlawful. And given that the Constitution is the highest law of the land (higher than the UCMJ) they are not required to follow an unconstitutional order.
__________________
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
- George Carlin
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 10:33 AM   #13
Beestie
-◊|≡·∙■·∙≡|◊-
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Parts unknown.
Posts: 4,081
He's doing what he thinks is right. I'm ok with it because and only because he is stepping up to accept the consequences of his actions.

I admire his principled stance and his courage. This is no fresh-outta boot camp, wet-behind-the-ears private who misses his mommy but an experienced soldier who has other soldiers under his command. I have little choice but to respect that and give him the benefit of the doubt. The facts will come out and his fate will be determined fairly.

As long as he served with honor while in uniform, then I don't have a big problem with any of this.
__________________
Beestie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 10:58 AM   #14
smoothmoniker
to live and die in LA
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,090
Quote:
Originally posted by Radar

His "job" is DEFENDING American soil from attack
No one who has joined the military in the modern era does so with the expectation of standing and fighting on American soil. We haven't had to defend our soil from foreign invaders since 1812 (not counting a few pacific islands and towns in west Texas).

I know you're a little bit nuts, so I'm kinda scared to even ask, but how exactly does following an order given by a sitting president, authorized by congress, unimpeeded by judicial review, result in a violation of the constitution?

-sm
smoothmoniker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2004, 11:39 AM   #15
Radar
Constitutional Scholar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Ocala, FL
Posts: 4,006
Quote:
No one who has joined the military in the modern era does so with the expectation of standing and fighting on American soil.
Defending America from a direct attack is the only valid use of the US military. Anything other than defending American soil or ships from attack is a violation fo the Constitution.

Quote:
know you're a little bit nuts, so I'm kinda scared to even ask, but how exactly does following an order given by a sitting president, authorized by congress, unimpeeded by judicial review, result in a violation of the constitution?
I'm not "nuts" in the slightest and I've never been wrong about the Constitution. It's funny that a mental midget like you would call me nuts though.

First off let's go to your "authorized by congress" claim. The Constitution says ONLY CONGRESS may declare war and even then only in the DEFENSE of America. Congress MAY NOT grant authority to the president to declare war or start wars. The war powers act is absolutely unconstitutional in its face and according to Marbury vs. Madison doesn't require judicial review to be disregarded.

Congress did not declare war. In fact when Congressman Ron Paul of Texas suggested we declare war after we launched our unprovoked and unconstitutional attack against Iraq, he was met with hostility.

The Constitution also defines our military solely for the defense of American soil and ships and for nothing else. That means STARTING wars against countries that have never attacked us and who pose no immediate danger (Iraq posed no danger) is unconstitutional. So are overthrowing the leadership of nations the president doesn't care for, humanitarian aid missions, training the military of other nations, stationing our troops around the world during times of peace in an imperialistic show of force, etc.

When any government employee is hired, they take an oath to uphold and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic. I think their oath should require them to read it first (the supreme court, congress, and the president clearly haven't).

Anyone who has taken that oath would be prevented from following an order to invade Iraq because...

1. The President has no Constitutional war making powers.
2. Congress may not grant war making powers to the President with anything other than a Constitutional amendment
3. Congress did not declare war.
4. Congress was prevented from declaring war because America was not in immediate danger and Iraq posed no threat.
5. The U.S. Military has no authority beyond our own borders and an order to use our DEFENSIVE military is a violation of the Constitution.

If someone did follow an unconstitutional order to invade Iraq from a sitting president (which is no different than if the president told them to shoot a bunch of school children), both the president and the soldier would be domestic enemies of the Constitution and both would have violated their oaths. In fact a good case could be made to brand them as traitors.

I know you're not the brightest bulb on the tree, but read it a few times so you can keep up.
__________________
"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."
- George Carlin
Radar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:58 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.