2/18/2004: Iraqi artist creates statue of US GI

Undertoad · 02-18-2004, 01:05 PM

This is another one of those things that should be interesting no matter which side you're on.

During the Hussein regime, Iraqi sculptor Kalat was forced to produce statues of Saddam, including two statues that stood at the gates of a palace that the 4th Infantry Division took as its temporary HQ. The 4th ID tore down those statues and sent the scrap bronze to Kalat, who took a picture of an American GI and used it to create his own design of the above work.

It's a GI mourning the remains of a fallen comrade. Next to him is a little Iraqi girl. She comforts him. She is put there to remind us all of what that sacrifice meant: that as a result, the children of Iraqi will grow up in a better, freer society (we all hope).

The statue sits at that palace now, but eventually will be brought back to Fort Hood to remain at the Fort Hood museum.

The cost to produce the statue was taken on by the members of the 4th ID, out of their own pockets. Not just pocket change: $18,000.

The story was met with original skepticism, but then documented as true by Snopes here. The full story and original photos are at the full story from the 4th ID website.

Here is Kalat checking out his own work.

hermex · 02-18-2004, 02:38 PM

What a sentimental piece of crap. I am not suprised it was paid for by Americans. That's one way to get an image of a grateful, liberated Iraqi - cast it in metal. It seems propaganda is recyclable.

What a dreadful, shameful war it's been.

Blizz · 02-18-2004, 03:40 PM

I think this is a beautiful tribute to the sacrifice our soldiers are making each and every day. They are doing their job. Maybe the government is wrong to send them there...maybe not...either way their eforts are impacting the lives of future generations by removing the cloak of tyranny that has long blocked the sunlight from their faces. Call me a sentimental bastard...whatever...as they say "if the shoe fits...."

Undertoad · 02-18-2004, 04:37 PM

Unless your narrative is wrong Hermex. It could happen.

juju · 02-18-2004, 05:46 PM

Very poignant. Moreso when one is fully knowegable of the terrible atrocities committed by the regime. Sadly, in my experience, this is very few people.

xoxoxoBruce · 02-18-2004, 06:01 PM

Snopes questioned the Army News Service (ARNEWS) who called the following text "a relatively accurate description".

"This picture of the statue was made by an Iraqi artist named Kalat, who for years was forced by Saddam Hussein to make the many hundreds of bronze busts of Saddam that dotted Baghdad. This artist was so grateful that the Americans liberated his country, he melted 3 of the fallen Saddam heads and made a memorial statue dedicated to the American soldiers and their fallen comrades. Kalat worked on this night and day for several months. To the left of the kneeling soldier is a small Iraqi girl giving the soldier comfort as he mourns the loss of his comrade in arms. It is currently on display outside the palace that is now home to the 4th Infantry division. It will eventually be shipped and shown at the memorial museum in Fort Hood, Texas."

Seems to me, $18k takes away some of the "grateful" but it's a nice statue anyway. Typically American? Hell yes. We tend to put up monuments to the dead rather than the victorious heros. I think that's because until recently we didn't have a professional army and the victorious heros went home. We put up monuments to the ones that didn't.

novice · 02-18-2004, 08:34 PM

Hermex- It was commissioned and paid for by G.I's to be displayed in a military museum. It's not like it's gonna be in Times square with a shiny plaque engraved with " Bittersweet".
That would be "sentimental crap"
This is a memorial.

tw · 02-19-2004, 02:05 AM

Remove the little girl, and the scene then has more credibility; more relevance. The little girl is just too much distraction for what is really important. After all, what is most important to a soldier? Win the battle? Get metals? Do the job? No. The most important job a soldier can do from the perspective of that soldier - protect his buddies.

CzinZumerzet · 02-19-2004, 06:02 AM

What a tasteless piece of Disneyesque sentimentality. By far the nastiest aspect of this is the further exploitation of the Iraqi child, sister no doubt to the thousands of children killed and maimed in the invasion. It begs the question of who will the 'artist' be collaborating with next?

Undertoad · 02-19-2004, 07:23 AM

Right, except that there were NOT *thousands* of children killed or maimed in the invasion.

There WERE, however, hundreds of young children released from the children's prison in Baghdad.

chrisinhouston · 02-19-2004, 09:02 AM

I was over in England 2 years ago with my family and my father was our tour guide, having survived the blitz and war and such. Interesting that in England for the most part they have monuments to the war dead, most of which were put up after The Great War (WWI). They usually just keep adding names under later conflicts instead of erecting new memorials. Seems like in the USA everyone wants a tribute to the war they fought and died in. Even small towns have tributes to many different groups of war dead.

I forget where I was driving a few months ago but there was a sign on the freeway saying somethingl like "Korean War Memorial Highway". Strange country, roads in memory of wars and sports stadiums with corporate logos like my own town's "Minute Maid Park", "Reliant Energy Stadium" and "Toyota Center" for basketball and hockey.

Cochese · 02-19-2004, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CzinZumerzet
What a tasteless piece of Disneyesque sentimentality.
Originally posted by hermex
What a sentimental piece of crap.

I am completely against the war. But, like most Americans, I support the troops. A memorial for fallen comrades, paid for by the soldiers themselves, with the help of an Iraqi citizen is a great thing. Appreciating the sculpture and/or what it stands for does not make you in favor of the war.

Elspode · 02-19-2004, 12:23 PM

No, you have to hate everyone and everything associated with the war. They are all pawns, tools and their masters. You have to want peace at any cost, even if you have to kill them all!

chrisinhouston · 02-19-2004, 01:03 PM

Lyrics for Kill for Peace by the Fugs, circa 1966

Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Near or middle or very far east
Far or near or very middle east
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
If you don't like the people
or the way that they talk
If you don't like their manners
or they way that they walk,
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
If you don't kill them
then the Chinese will
If you don't want America
to play second fiddle,
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
If you let them live
they might support the Russians
If you let them live
they might love the Russians
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
(spoken) Kill 'em, kill 'em, strafe those gook creeps!
The only gook an
American can trust
Is a gook that's got
his yellow head bust.
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, it'll
feel so good,
like my captain
said it should
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill it will give
you a mental ease
kill it will give
you a big release
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace
Kill, kill, kill for peace

hermex · 02-19-2004, 02:15 PM

I don't feel compelled to dislike this sculpture because I don't support the war. I just think it's a lousy scupture, an oversized Precious Moments figurine.

I find it offensive that Iraq's presence in the sculpture is as a little girl feeling sorry for an American. It makes an incredibly complicated relationship idiotically simple.

And it reminds me of those initial images of cheering Iraqis toppling the statue of Saddam. Later we discover that it was a handful of Iraqis being helped by American military. A great image, but a deceptive one. Just like these photos would make you think this Iraqi artist spontaneously created a tribute to American soldiers. In fact, it was paid for by Americans to memorialize themselves (and that's where the artist's former job seems a bit ironic).

Support Our Troops Disclaimer -- I support our troops. I really don't want them to die, I just don't like this sculpture.

02-18-2004, 01:05 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	2/18/2004: Iraqi artist creates statue of US GI This is another one of those things that should be interesting no matter which side you're on. During the Hussein regime, Iraqi sculptor Kalat was forced to produce statues of Saddam, including two statues that stood at the gates of a palace that the 4th Infantry Division took as its temporary HQ. The 4th ID tore down those statues and sent the scrap bronze to Kalat, who took a picture of an American GI and used it to create his own design of the above work. It's a GI mourning the remains of a fallen comrade. Next to him is a little Iraqi girl. She comforts him. She is put there to remind us all of what that sacrifice meant: that as a result, the children of Iraqi will grow up in a better, freer society (we all hope). The statue sits at that palace now, but eventually will be brought back to Fort Hood to remain at the Fort Hood museum. The cost to produce the statue was taken on by the members of the 4th ID, out of their own pockets. Not just pocket change: $18,000. The story was met with original skepticism, but then documented as true by Snopes here. The full story and original photos are at the full story from the 4th ID website. Here is Kalat checking out his own work.

02-18-2004, 06:01 PM	#6
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Snopes questioned the Army News Service (ARNEWS) who called the following text "a relatively accurate description". "This picture of the statue was made by an Iraqi artist named Kalat, who for years was forced by Saddam Hussein to make the many hundreds of bronze busts of Saddam that dotted Baghdad. This artist was so grateful that the Americans liberated his country, he melted 3 of the fallen Saddam heads and made a memorial statue dedicated to the American soldiers and their fallen comrades. Kalat worked on this night and day for several months. To the left of the kneeling soldier is a small Iraqi girl giving the soldier comfort as he mourns the loss of his comrade in arms. It is currently on display outside the palace that is now home to the 4th Infantry division. It will eventually be shipped and shown at the memorial museum in Fort Hood, Texas." Seems to me, $18k takes away some of the "grateful" but it's a nice statue anyway. Typically American? Hell yes. We tend to put up monuments to the dead rather than the victorious heros. I think that's because until recently we didn't have a professional army and the victorious heros went home. We put up monuments to the ones that didn't. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

02-19-2004, 06:02 AM	#9
CzinZumerzet .....short for Caz Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: The West Coast of England Posts: 358	statue What a tasteless piece of Disneyesque sentimentality. By far the nastiest aspect of this is the further exploitation of the Iraqi child, sister no doubt to the thousands of children killed and maimed in the invasion. It begs the question of who will the 'artist' be collaborating with next? __________________ ..down by the zea zippin' zider

02-19-2004, 12:23 PM	#13
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	No, you have to hate everyone and everything associated with the war. They are all pawns, tools and their masters. You have to want peace at any cost, even if you have to kill them all! __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

02-18-2004, 02:38 PM	#2
hermex Dry Nurse Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 23	What a sentimental piece of crap. I am not suprised it was paid for by Americans. That's one way to get an image of a grateful, liberated Iraqi - cast it in metal. It seems propaganda is recyclable. What a dreadful, shameful war it's been.

02-18-2004, 03:40 PM	#3
Blizz Recruit or Something Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: SLC UT Posts: 4	I think this is a beautiful tribute to the sacrifice our soldiers are making each and every day. They are doing their job. Maybe the government is wrong to send them there...maybe not...either way their eforts are impacting the lives of future generations by removing the cloak of tyranny that has long blocked the sunlight from their faces. Call me a sentimental bastard...whatever...as they say "if the shoe fits...."

02-18-2004, 04:37 PM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Unless your narrative is wrong Hermex. It could happen.

02-18-2004, 05:46 PM	#5
juju no one of consequence Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Arkansas Posts: 2,839	Very poignant. Moreso when one is fully knowegable of the terrible atrocities committed by the regime. Sadly, in my experience, this is very few people.

02-18-2004, 08:34 PM	#7
novice Ignorance is bliss and I'm orgasmic Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perth, australia Posts: 296	Hermex- It was commissioned and paid for by G.I's to be displayed in a military museum. It's not like it's gonna be in Times square with a shiny plaque engraved with " Bittersweet". That would be "sentimental crap" This is a memorial.

02-19-2004, 02:05 AM	#8
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Remove the little girl, and the scene then has more credibility; more relevance. The little girl is just too much distraction for what is really important. After all, what is most important to a soldier? Win the battle? Get metals? Do the job? No. The most important job a soldier can do from the perspective of that soldier - protect his buddies.

02-19-2004, 07:23 AM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Right, except that there were NOT thousands of children killed or maimed in the invasion. There WERE, however, hundreds of young children released from the children's prison in Baghdad.

02-19-2004, 09:02 AM	#11
chrisinhouston Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,857	I was over in England 2 years ago with my family and my father was our tour guide, having survived the blitz and war and such. Interesting that in England for the most part they have monuments to the war dead, most of which were put up after The Great War (WWI). They usually just keep adding names under later conflicts instead of erecting new memorials. Seems like in the USA everyone wants a tribute to the war they fought and died in. Even small towns have tributes to many different groups of war dead. I forget where I was driving a few months ago but there was a sign on the freeway saying somethingl like "Korean War Memorial Highway". Strange country, roads in memory of wars and sports stadiums with corporate logos like my own town's "Minute Maid Park", "Reliant Energy Stadium" and "Toyota Center" for basketball and hockey.

02-19-2004, 01:03 PM	#14
chrisinhouston Professor Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Houston TX Posts: 1,857	Lyrics for Kill for Peace by the Fugs, circa 1966 Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace Near or middle or very far east Far or near or very middle east Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace If you don't like the people or the way that they talk If you don't like their manners or they way that they walk, Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace If you don't kill them then the Chinese will If you don't want America to play second fiddle, Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace If you let them live they might support the Russians If you let them live they might love the Russians Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace (spoken) Kill 'em, kill 'em, strafe those gook creeps! The only gook an American can trust Is a gook that's got his yellow head bust. Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, it'll feel so good, like my captain said it should Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill it will give you a mental ease kill it will give you a big release Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace Kill, kill, kill for peace

02-19-2004, 02:15 PM	#15
hermex Dry Nurse Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Berkeley, CA Posts: 23	I don't feel compelled to dislike this sculpture because I don't support the war. I just think it's a lousy scupture, an oversized Precious Moments figurine. I find it offensive that Iraq's presence in the sculpture is as a little girl feeling sorry for an American. It makes an incredibly complicated relationship idiotically simple. And it reminds me of those initial images of cheering Iraqis toppling the statue of Saddam. Later we discover that it was a handful of Iraqis being helped by American military. A great image, but a deceptive one. Just like these photos would make you think this Iraqi artist spontaneously created a tribute to American soldiers. In fact, it was paid for by Americans to memorialize themselves (and that's where the artist's former job seems a bit ironic). Support Our Troops Disclaimer -- I support our troops. I really don't want them to die, I just don't like this sculpture.

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