Parents who don't get it

[Arcturus]

Originally posted by sycamore
Let's look at some of the "facts":

--Mary was born without original sin (though this was declared by a Pope).
--Mary conceives a child without getting any.
--Mary is assumed into Heaven without any mention of death.
--Mary was crowned as the Queen of Heaven.

And what about all the various names for her?

--Our Lady of Sorrows
--Mary Queen of the Universe
--Our Lady of Guadalupe

etc. etc.

Catholicism can call it praise all they want. As I see it, it's hero worship...virtual deification.

I'm not that vehement about it that I'd actually want to argue...

"Virtual deification" isn't really the same as actually calling her "god," is it, now?

[elSicomoro]

The only reason they don't call her a god/goddess is because they're scared of going to hell. I don't see what the big deal is...most of them are headed there anyway.

[Whit]

From Syc: I don't see what the big deal is...most of them are headed there anyway.

      Absolutely. In the end we're going to find out that the Jews were right.

[OnyxCougar]

I've always been interested in Catholicism. Anybody know of a good website for n00b Catholics?

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
Anybody know of a good website for n00b Catholics?

This particular site is rather detailed and seems pretty accurate...and Griff, Wolf or I could probably answer any questions you might have. (I'll even try and hide my disdain for the Church if you ask me anything. )

[Slartibartfast]

[i]

Catholicism can call it praise all they want. As I see it, it's hero worship...virtual deification. [/b]

Yah, but Catholic's don't say Mary created the universe, or is omnipotent, omniscientt, or anything like that. Big difference between God and saint. Mary is a saint, the most significant saint, yes, but a saint- not God.

[Slartibartfast]

A page specifically about Catholic Doctrine concerning Mary is

http://www.udayton.edu/mary/questions.html

It has a little further down the web page an article concerning whether Catholics worship Mary.

[elSicomoro]

I'm not arguing Church doctrine, Slarti. I know what the doctrine says. My issue is with the followers and the leaders of the Church.

[OnyxCougar]

Man. I have so many problems with some of the stuff on this page.... (the one linked...)

What the Catechism of the Catholic Church says on "Contraception:"
2370. "Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality. [HV 16.] These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, 'every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible' is intrinsically evil. [HV 14.] Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality.... The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.[FC 32.]"

Uh...what?

OK....this what I think it means:

It's not ok to use contraception.
unless it's by the rhythm method.

Because using contraception isn't giving oneself totally to the other.
...Except that if you use the rhythm method, you can't have sex how many days a month? Isn't that not giving oneself totally to the other? And what if (like me) the female has PCOS, or other disorder that throws off the cycle, to the point that I never know when I'll have one? That mean I can't have marital sex if I don't want kids?

But if I can't have marital sex, isn't that a sin, to deny my husband?

Marital sex is evil?

[elSicomoro]

Ain't Catholicism neat?

[OnyxCougar]

OK, please tell me, what is "The Rosary"? I understand it's a necklace, made up of counting beads. You are supposed to say "Hail Mary's" and "Our Fathers."

What, exactly, is a Hail Mary and Our Father? I mean, I understand it's a prayer, but is it one thing specifically, something you have to memorize? If so, can you type it here? I can't seem to find anything on it except a historical dissertation on the origins. I don't need that. I just wanna know the words....

[OnyxCougar]

OK< I asked my epicopalian friend and she told me the words, so now I have a more specific question about the rosary. I know that there are 10 beads, then one bead, then 10 beads, then one bead. There are 5 sets of ten, then on the bottom there is a "father bead" then 3 mary beads then a father bead.

Is there a different or special significance to the lower beads?

[elSicomoro]

This site explains the Rosary...you start with the lower beads first.

(BTW, it's not a necklace.)

[Slartibartfast]

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
OK< I asked my epicopalian friend and she told me the words, so now I have a more specific question about the rosary. I know that there are 10 beads, then one bead, then 10 beads, then one bead. There are 5 sets of ten, then on the bottom there is a "father bead" then 3 mary beads then a father bead.

Is there a different or special significance to the lower beads?

The rosary is more than just saying the prayers on each bead.
Every set of ten small beads has a 'mystery' associated, and one is supposed to meditate on its significance as one says the prayers. You say the words -which once you know them is almost automatic- but you pray over the religious theme. That stops the rosary from just being a repetition of the same words over and over, which is what some detractors say it is.

It's sort of a form of prayer multitasking.

[Slartibartfast]

you can download a program that guides you through praying the Rosary.
it's at

http://www.virtualrosary.org/


what's neat about it is that it has a painting depicting each mystery, and it also has the words for the prayers in many languages.