3/13/2004: Madrid terrorism protest

[Elspode]

I'm sure you've looked around, but this certainly shows some debris. Probably a really convincing job of Photoshopping, though. Big cover up and all.

[quzah]

So there was one engine and a landing gear? Where's the rest of the plane? This wasn't supposedly some tiny cesna. It's a fucking jet. Ok, so there's a handful of scrap metal. Where are the bodies? None were ever recovered.

...This post is a work in progress...

Someone's rant on the explosion at the time of occurance is here. Notice the grass in the bottom pictures. More photos.

Yet more. Interesting to note that in these photos, or a number of them, they seem to indicate that the aircraft should be mainly outside of the pentagon, not inside. In either case, the wings themselves should have done more damage than they supposedly did, since they store all the fuel. And as we know, that fuel is potent enough to take down a steel tower...

Here is a tinfoil hat site that shows a decent summary of pictures. Again, note no wing impacts in the close up pictures.

Anyway... Way to Hijack a thread eh? Ehehe.

Quzah.

[Elspode]

A plane full of fuel flying at 250 mph and crashing into a reinforced concrete building (several walls worth of reinforced concrete, as well as supporting columns) is going to essentially vaporize. A great deal of the resulting shredded aluminum will burn completely in the subsequent fire (I have burned beer cans in campfires before, so I know this can be done). Other sites clearly show a landing gear, wheel, turbofan parts, tire tread, primered metal known to match the aircraft type, etc, etc.

Also, a hell of a lot of witnesses saw it happen. Pretty hard to confuse a commercial airliner with anything else.

I like the theory I saw on one site, though. That the government planted the "no plane" conspiracy theory so they could then discredit it, making those who adhered to it look like loonies.

Occam's Razor should apply here, at least. We *saw* two planes crash into the WTC towers. We saw the wreckage of a third in a field on the same day. Why should we doubt that this was just another plane? What about all the relatives of the dead who put their loved ones on the plane that morning and drove off? The plane and their families went *somewhere*, never to return...

[Undertoad]

All this shit was started by a French book that came out in 2002. It was thoroughly debunked. If you start to believe in this kind of thing you should start questionning your sources harder. There is a ton of evidence in one direction and only a few stupid questions in the other. Like spode said, Occam applies here. Everyone is trying to introduce noise into your belief system. Don't help them.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The real plane and passengers are hidden in the studio where then filmed the moon landings.

[elSicomoro]

I'm going to file this alongside "The Holocaust never happened" and "The moon landing was faked by Hollywood."

[Undertoad]

Here's the Snopes page on this item btw.

[quzah]

Originally posted by Elspode
Also, a hell of a lot of witnesses saw it happen. Pretty hard to confuse a commercial airliner with anything else.

I like the theory I saw on one site, though. That the government planted the "no plane" conspiracy theory so they could then discredit it, making those who adhered to it look like loonies.

Occam's Razor should apply here, at least. We *saw* two planes crash into the WTC towers. We saw the wreckage of a third in a field on the same day. Why should we doubt that this was just another plane? What about all the relatives of the dead who put their loved ones on the plane that morning and drove off? The plane and their families went *somewhere*, never to return...

Few items:

A hell of a lot of people didn't "see" it happen. Those that did seem to have different flight paths for the jet.

The FBI apparently seized every shred of video evidence of the actual crash itself. Compared to the towers, which were replayed over and over and over.

Why should you doubt this was another plane? That's a great sentence. I'll leave it at th[^***#$
NO CARRIER
***FILE PURGE ACTIVATED
...............................................................................
....................................................................
...............................................................
OK.
]

[Elspode]

Well, I know that you and I didn't see it happen...but I'm still going with the least complex theory until someone gives me an explanation of why we would kill our own people and endanger our own military HQ. Wait, let rephrase that. I'll need an explanation from someone who hasn't been off their meds for awhile.

Our government can't even keep the fucking highways paved. I don't think they could make a conspiracy this large and keep it secret. Clinton couldn't even keep getting his knob polished by his intern a secret, after all.

[OnyxCougar]

Reports that the WTC did not collapse because of damage caused by the planes, but because Silverstein and FDNY decided to set off the charges that were built into the buildings and "pull them" down before they fell down.

Streaming footage.
Link Here

[OnyxCougar]

This is a HELL of a page about the Warren Commission's coverup about the Kennedy Assasination.

I'm finding all this stuff linked off other Conspiracy Theory sites. It's really interesting.

[ndetroit]

I remember watching TV on sept 11, and there were all kinds of reports about a "5th plane" ... and then all of a sudden you just heard NOTHING about it... they didn't even make a retraction, like "Oh, we're getting reports now that the 5th plane we mentioned was fine", or whatever.

I think it was somewhere near denver, or it had departed from denver, or something like that..

And you never hear anyone mention it.

Just sloppy reporting?

[OnyxCougar]

I also heard CNN say it was a truck bomb that hit the pentagon. Then they said it was a plane. How do you get truck bomb from a 757?

[Elspode]

Originally posted by ndetroit
I remember watching TV on sept 11, and there were all kinds of reports about a "5th plane" ... and then all of a sudden you just heard NOTHING about it... they didn't even make a retraction, like "Oh, we're getting reports now that the 5th plane we mentioned was fine", or whatever.

I think it was somewhere near denver, or it had departed from denver, or something like that..

And you never hear anyone mention it.

Just sloppy reporting?

Maybe they actually flew *two* planes into the Pentagon!

[elSicomoro]

I distinctly remember hearing that one plane was shot down by the Air Force, and that a bomb went off at the State Dept. that morning...I still have a copy of the Philadelphia Inquirer that shows the latter.

It isn't the first time the media has fucked up...won't be the last.

(EDIT: Sorry...I initially posted this about 20 minutes before the time listed to the left...was checking to see if I was still having a problem with deleting posts. No problem here or in Jimbo's forum, but I definitely can't delete posts in Politics and Current Events.)