NPR opposing direct democracy

Griff · 08-18-2003, 08:08 AM

Morning Edition had an lovely interview interview this morning. They had a discussion with a disgruntled lobbyist/ex-legislator who wants to get rid of the referrendum process because "special interests" are hijacking the process. He was never challenged by the interviewer. I guess democracy is great until Democrats start losing jobs. Yes, the referrendum process often has stupid irrational outcomes but I wouldn't say our normal processes are much more rational and are certainly less responsive. The defense of Davis ignores the fact that he is a much resented machine politican. My brother is a union official and a Green Party member who was essentially coerced into helping him get re-elected, I suspect he's happy to see the evil bugger get his.

*edit sloppy vB

elSicomoro · 08-18-2003, 09:21 AM

Easy Griff...I listened to the same interview, and I don't think he nor NPR were necessarily Democratic propagandists.

The United States is a republic, not a true democracy. If we were a true democracy, nothing would ever get done.

Maybe because I'm not from California, I don't get it. But it seems like the anger towards him is a bit misdirected, i.e. they're blaming the wrong guy.

And IMO, the recall process in California is too easy to get going. While I'm all for "for the people, by the people," tougher standards are needed for a recall there.

hermit22 · 08-18-2003, 12:55 PM

The problem with the referendum process is that the wrong kinds of things become law - because the general mass doesn't pay attention to all the details. The reason they elect politicians is so that they can do that kind of legwork.

As an example, in California, referendums pretty much banned all new taxes unless they were approved by voters, yet scores of other initiatives have passed that require that a certain percentage of the state's budget be given to a specific cause - afterschool programs, for example. It makes balancing the budget impossible - you can't really raise revenue, and there's a lot of stuff you simply can't cut.

This isn't to say that the idea of giving freedom to the people is a bad thing, just that it's problematic, and should be watched closely. Read The Federalist Papers for a more nuanced approach. Remember, originally, the people didn't even elect their senators - it was the electoral college.

Griff · 08-18-2003, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hermit22
Read The Federalist Papers for a more nuanced approach.

My sympathies were always with the anti-federalists. 13 weak and independent states... it was a nice dream while it lasted. In all honesty, I'm not much of a democrat, prefering government play a minimal role. To me, the interesting thing is that NPR, which really is the voice of the establishment Dems, would verbalize its self interest so openly, since despite its quality, state funding for it would, sensibly, be eliminated under a bare-bones budget process. *ouch* that was quite a sentance.

warch · 08-18-2003, 03:01 PM

yeah, who wants quality anyway?

xoxoxoBruce · 08-18-2003, 04:28 PM

I do but NPR always sounds like it comes from god forsaken place like.....like.....Lake Wobegon.

Cedar · 08-18-2003, 05:13 PM

At least NPR is now mostly supporting itself having weaned itself from the government dole. Here in Europe we Anglophiles are subjected to the whims of the British Broadcasting Corporation. The BBC gets its funding from a manditory annual tax on all tv sets in Britain in the amount of $100 or so. They are so flush with money that they employ over 20,000 people. What most of these people do to earn their money is beyond me. In all fairness, the BBC does produce some good programming but at an unnecessary high cost.

08-19-2003, 06:25 AM

Holy <b>smokes</b> that is a big tax.

This is a good time to start a capitalism vs socialism debate, isn't it?

xoxoxoBruce · 08-19-2003, 08:43 AM

Actually it's more like$180 per year.

08-19-2003, 09:08 AM

Holy <b>smokes</b> that is a bigger tax.

warch · 08-19-2003, 12:06 PM

You know, "holy smokes" is a great saying. much more interesting than "holy cow." But then there are all the Robin spin offs, great potential. "holy doublecross Batman." "holy watertight Batman" "holy beefsteak tomato Batman..."

xoxoxoBruce · 08-19-2003, 12:51 PM

Just what have you been smoking?

Griff · 08-19-2003, 02:19 PM

Prolly falafel.

warch · 08-19-2003, 02:53 PM

Holy burnt falafel Griffman!

Cedar · 08-20-2003, 12:05 AM

$180 is probably the nearer figure. I confess that I was lazy and didn't look the exact amount up when I wrote the blurb. An astounding and I think outrageous amount, nevertheless.

08-18-2003, 08:08 AM	#1
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	NPR opposing direct democracy Morning Edition had an lovely interview interview this morning. They had a discussion with a disgruntled lobbyist/ex-legislator who wants to get rid of the referrendum process because "special interests" are hijacking the process. He was never challenged by the interviewer. I guess democracy is great until Democrats start losing jobs. Yes, the referrendum process often has stupid irrational outcomes but I wouldn't say our normal processes are much more rational and are certainly less responsive. The defense of Davis ignores the fact that he is a much resented machine politican. My brother is a union official and a Green Party member who was essentially coerced into helping him get re-elected, I suspect he's happy to see the evil bugger get his. edit sloppy vB __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis Last edited by Griff; 08-18-2003 at 02:00 PM.*

08-18-2003, 09:21 AM	#2
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Easy Griff...I listened to the same interview, and I don't think he nor NPR were necessarily Democratic propagandists. The United States is a republic, not a true democracy. If we were a true democracy, nothing would ever get done. Maybe because I'm not from California, I don't get it. But it seems like the anger towards him is a bit misdirected, i.e. they're blaming the wrong guy. And IMO, the recall process in California is too easy to get going. While I'm all for "for the people, by the people," tougher standards are needed for a recall there. Last edited by elSicomoro; 08-18-2003 at 09:25 AM.

08-18-2003, 12:55 PM	#3
hermit22 sleep. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: So Cal. Posts: 257	The problem with the referendum process is that the wrong kinds of things become law - because the general mass doesn't pay attention to all the details. The reason they elect politicians is so that they can do that kind of legwork. As an example, in California, referendums pretty much banned all new taxes unless they were approved by voters, yet scores of other initiatives have passed that require that a certain percentage of the state's budget be given to a specific cause - afterschool programs, for example. It makes balancing the budget impossible - you can't really raise revenue, and there's a lot of stuff you simply can't cut. This isn't to say that the idea of giving freedom to the people is a bad thing, just that it's problematic, and should be watched closely. Read The Federalist Papers for a more nuanced approach. Remember, originally, the people didn't even elect their senators - it was the electoral college. __________________ blippety blah bluh blah blah

08-18-2003, 04:28 PM	#6
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I do but NPR always sounds like it comes from god forsaken place like.....like.....Lake Wobegon. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-18-2003, 05:13 PM	#7
Cedar Questionist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 8	No NPR in Prague, just the BBC At least NPR is now mostly supporting itself having weaned itself from the government dole. Here in Europe we Anglophiles are subjected to the whims of the British Broadcasting Corporation. The BBC gets its funding from a manditory annual tax on all tv sets in Britain in the amount of $100 or so. They are so flush with money that they employ over 20,000 people. What most of these people do to earn their money is beyond me. In all fairness, the BBC does produce some good programming but at an unnecessary high cost. __________________ Globalnomaddad

08-18-2003, 03:01 PM	#5
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	yeah, who wants quality anyway?

08-19-2003, 06:25 AM	#8
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Holy <b>smokes</b> that is a big tax. This is a good time to start a capitalism vs socialism debate, isn't it?

08-19-2003, 08:43 AM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Actually it's more like$180 per year. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-19-2003, 09:08 AM	#10
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Holy <b>smokes</b> that is a bigger tax.

08-19-2003, 12:06 PM	#11
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	You know, "holy smokes" is a great saying. much more interesting than "holy cow." But then there are all the Robin spin offs, great potential. "holy doublecross Batman." "holy watertight Batman" "holy beefsteak tomato Batman..."

08-19-2003, 12:51 PM	#12
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Just what have you been smoking? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

08-19-2003, 02:19 PM	#13
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Prolly falafel. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

08-19-2003, 02:53 PM	#14
warch lurkin old school Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,796	Holy burnt falafel Griffman!

08-20-2003, 12:05 AM	#15
Cedar Questionist Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Prague, Czech Republic Posts: 8	$180 is probably the nearer figure. I confess that I was lazy and didn't look the exact amount up when I wrote the blurb. An astounding and I think outrageous amount, nevertheless. __________________ Globalnomaddad

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