Things you should do. - Page 5

russotto · 11-22-2003, 08:24 PM

April is the way she is because she's a child? That's both insulting to actual young people and too easy on her. I've been using BBSs (to use the old name) since I was far younger than April, and never managed to make nearly as much of an ass out of myself (and I usually am pretty good at making an ass out of myself). This includes BBSs and forums mainly populated by adults.

I imagine there are several regulars on the Cellar who could say the same -- including some who are that young now. It's doing them a disservice to blame April's behavior on her age.

(as for the privacy issue -- well, you want _my_ name and address, look up the whois for russotto.net. If you want to scare me, send me a Dell anonymously. If you REALLY want to scare me, leave a couple of cases of Dos Equis outside my door in the middle of the night.)

Elspode · 11-22-2003, 08:47 PM

I was just wondering...are newspapers also risking a student's life and limb when they publish their names and the name of the school, say in the sports pages or when the honor roll comes out?

I mean, then, you get a full name and a definite school name, probably even the grade the kid is in...even a picture of little darlings.

Sure seems like more useful info for a potential psycho than the stuff that got posted here...

HaywardNelson · 11-22-2003, 09:33 PM

When you read about someone in the newspaper it is a different thing than interacting with them on the internet. A deviant may feel that he or she has a real relationship (however filled with animosity) with the girl due to their interactions here, and thus may feel inclined to go further than he or she would have having just read her name in the newspaper.

Regarding stating opinion as fact, I feel it is a great waste of time to preface everything with "In my opinion." Clearly, I am writing it, thus it is my opinion. When in a discussion of morals or other non-concrete ideas, I generally take what everyone says as their opinion. This is a conversation, not a game of Jeopardy. I will continue to post my opinions without the opinion disclaimer, especially in cases like this. There is no question in my mind that posting that information is wrong. You can feel free to disagree with that, it will just confirm that we don't share the same moral standards, and what I know is true for me may not be true for you, but that does not mean that I will back down from it.

If you want to blather on about semantics, feel free. Post each sentence of this post and dissect it. I'm not going to cow down and change the way I express myself because you can't bother to discern the difference between me saying:

"It is wrong to post information about a child on the internet" (my personal morals)

and

"The first president of the United States was Johnny Rotten" (a blatant misrepresentation of fact)

HaywardNelson · 11-22-2003, 09:36 PM

I will concede, however, that April doesn't seem to give a rat's ass that this information has been posted, so it's really a moot point.

Elspode · 11-22-2003, 09:45 PM

A deviant can get any idea he/she wants, based on any information anywhere. There are lots of cases where delusional people imagined that they had a relationship with someone on TV or in the movies, when in fact they did not.

I'm not sure it is practical to expect everyone and everything in the world to function as though a deviant might somehow abuse the information they've gathered in a public forum.

You are, however, entirely entitled to your opinions and morals. Hey, at least you have some. A lot of people seem to lack them altogether.

juju · 11-22-2003, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HaywardNelson
I post as FACT that what you have done to April is wrong.

You said it was a fact. Now you're backpedaling and admitting it's just your opinion.

Not only does no one agree with you, but even you don't agree with you.

HaywardNelson · 11-22-2003, 09:53 PM

I will agree with you that it isn't practical for everyone to live in fear of deviant abusing every tidbit of information given. I do think, however, that it should be my own decision to post my information just as it should be your decision to post yours. I realize that the chances are slim of anything happening as a result of information being posted in this forum, but if that 1 in 1000 (I'm making up that statistic, don't hold me to it) chance happens to occur and a lunatic does abuse the information, I would feel pretty lousy if I were the one to have posted the information. The decision of how much personal information to disclose to a group of strangers should remain in the hands of each individual. It's not my place to decide what information people should know about another person, nor is it yours (the broad you, not you specifically).

I'm tired and I'm repeating myself, so if this is a big, circular post, I'm sorry.

elSicomoro · 11-22-2003, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HaywardNelson
I will continue to post my opinions without the opinion disclaimer, especially in cases like this.

You are free to do so. And I will continue to call you on things when I consider it necessary.

Though I can't take people like you seriously anyway...

Nothing But Net · 11-22-2003, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juju
Not only does no one agree with you, but even you don't agree with you.

I may not always agree with you, but I will defend to the death your right to commit suicide to make your point.

HaywardNelson · 11-22-2003, 10:01 PM

Again, JuJu, I'm sorry you feel I am back-pedalling. If this makes you feel better, here:

I feel that it is a fact that what was posted about April is wrong. No matter how many ways you justify it, I will not feel any differently. I'm sure that you would say that it is a FACT that raping and murdering people is wrong, but to the rapists and murderers in the world, that fact is not true. It doesn't make it any less of something you hold true because they disagree.

It seems silly to debate over the word usage here. I will give you that I used the word "fact" loosely. Okay?

HaywardNelson · 11-22-2003, 10:07 PM

You can't take people like me seriously? Why, because I disagree with you? I don't think I've been out of line in arguing my point. I didn't realize that I had to become a part of the cellar borg to be taken seriously.

I've made concessions. I've acknowledged when you made valid points. I would take someone who was willing to do that more seriously than someone who just fell down on his knees and changed his opinion because the majority of the people disagreed with him.

jeni · 11-22-2003, 11:12 PM

you FEEL that it is a fact, and that statement is your opinion.

my opinion is that rape and murder are wrong. these feelings may be fact to me, but they are still my opinion, because they are not ACTUAL to everyone else (or factual, for that matter!). besides, "wrong" and "bad" are vague words that are generally not used to define things.

elSicomoro · 11-22-2003, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HaywardNelson
You can't take people like me seriously?

No

Quote:

Why, because I disagree with you?

Not at all.

This quote from you is part of the reason why:

Quote:

Regarding stating opinion as fact, I feel it is a great waste of time to preface everything with "In my opinion." Clearly, I am writing it, thus it is my opinion. When in a discussion of morals or other non-concrete ideas, I generally take what everyone says as their opinion. This is a conversation, not a game of Jeopardy. I will continue to post my opinions without the opinion disclaimer, especially in cases like this.

Here's how the above quote comes across to me: "I'm too lazy to back up or qualify things that could be misconstrued. I expect you to automatically assume that everything I say here is opinion. Because I take what people say in moral or intangible idea discussions to be opinion, I expect everyone else here to do the same. So, I'm going to keep doing what I do."

And while you have made a few concessions, up to this point you have tried to impose your morality on me, assumed that I was patronizing you and stated that the high school information posted was done to intimidate. Plus, it sounds like you were trying to call me a sick person, though you have yet to answer my question regarding that. It seems like you're trying to make me out to be a bad guy, when 5000+ posts and at least a dozen people on here would argue otherwise.

So, to sum up, I can't take you seriously because you haven't shown that you're really worthy of my respect. You may not agree with what I did or what I say, but I don't think that gives you the right to do what you've done.

xoxoxoBruce · 11-22-2003, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by HaywardNelson
You can't take people like me seriously? Why, because I disagree with you? I don't think I've been out of line in arguing my point. I didn't realize that I had to become a part of the cellar borg to be taken seriously.

No. Because I would never take seriously a cunt that would misrepresent a college project (The original Model State Computer Crimes Code Code was drafted by the students participating in the 1998 Cybercrimes Seminar. The Code has now been revised by the students of the 1999 Cybercrimes Seminar.) as law.
I admit you fooled me. You won't again.

lumberjim · 11-22-2003, 11:29 PM

uh, did i miss something, bruce?

11-22-2003, 08:24 PM	#61
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	My turn to get some licks in April is the way she is because she's a child? That's both insulting to actual young people and too easy on her. I've been using BBSs (to use the old name) since I was far younger than April, and never managed to make nearly as much of an ass out of myself (and I usually am pretty good at making an ass out of myself). This includes BBSs and forums mainly populated by adults. I imagine there are several regulars on the Cellar who could say the same -- including some who are that young now. It's doing them a disservice to blame April's behavior on her age. (as for the privacy issue -- well, you want _my_ name and address, look up the whois for russotto.net. If you want to scare me, send me a Dell anonymously. If you REALLY want to scare me, leave a couple of cases of Dos Equis outside my door in the middle of the night.)

11-22-2003, 08:47 PM	#62
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I was just wondering...are newspapers also risking a student's life and limb when they publish their names and the name of the school, say in the sports pages or when the honor roll comes out? I mean, then, you get a full name and a definite school name, probably even the grade the kid is in...even a picture of little darlings. Sure seems like more useful info for a potential psycho than the stuff that got posted here... __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

11-22-2003, 09:45 PM	#65
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	A deviant can get any idea he/she wants, based on any information anywhere. There are lots of cases where delusional people imagined that they had a relationship with someone on TV or in the movies, when in fact they did not. I'm not sure it is practical to expect everyone and everything in the world to function as though a deviant might somehow abuse the information they've gathered in a public forum. You are, however, entirely entitled to your opinions and morals. Hey, at least you have some. A lot of people seem to lack them altogether. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

11-22-2003, 11:29 PM	#75
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	uh, did i miss something, bruce? __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

11-22-2003, 09:33 PM	#63
HaywardNelson Belt Conveyor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: You secret agents don't need me to tell you. Posts: 66	When you read about someone in the newspaper it is a different thing than interacting with them on the internet. A deviant may feel that he or she has a real relationship (however filled with animosity) with the girl due to their interactions here, and thus may feel inclined to go further than he or she would have having just read her name in the newspaper. Regarding stating opinion as fact, I feel it is a great waste of time to preface everything with "In my opinion." Clearly, I am writing it, thus it is my opinion. When in a discussion of morals or other non-concrete ideas, I generally take what everyone says as their opinion. This is a conversation, not a game of Jeopardy. I will continue to post my opinions without the opinion disclaimer, especially in cases like this. There is no question in my mind that posting that information is wrong. You can feel free to disagree with that, it will just confirm that we don't share the same moral standards, and what I know is true for me may not be true for you, but that does not mean that I will back down from it. If you want to blather on about semantics, feel free. Post each sentence of this post and dissect it. I'm not going to cow down and change the way I express myself because you can't bother to discern the difference between me saying: "It is wrong to post information about a child on the internet" (my personal morals) and "The first president of the United States was Johnny Rotten" (a blatant misrepresentation of fact)

11-22-2003, 09:36 PM	#64
HaywardNelson Belt Conveyor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: You secret agents don't need me to tell you. Posts: 66	I will concede, however, that April doesn't seem to give a rat's ass that this information has been posted, so it's really a moot point.

11-22-2003, 09:53 PM	#67
HaywardNelson Belt Conveyor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: You secret agents don't need me to tell you. Posts: 66	I will agree with you that it isn't practical for everyone to live in fear of deviant abusing every tidbit of information given. I do think, however, that it should be my own decision to post my information just as it should be your decision to post yours. I realize that the chances are slim of anything happening as a result of information being posted in this forum, but if that 1 in 1000 (I'm making up that statistic, don't hold me to it) chance happens to occur and a lunatic does abuse the information, I would feel pretty lousy if I were the one to have posted the information. The decision of how much personal information to disclose to a group of strangers should remain in the hands of each individual. It's not my place to decide what information people should know about another person, nor is it yours (the broad you, not you specifically). I'm tired and I'm repeating myself, so if this is a big, circular post, I'm sorry.

11-22-2003, 10:01 PM	#70
HaywardNelson Belt Conveyor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: You secret agents don't need me to tell you. Posts: 66	Again, JuJu, I'm sorry you feel I am back-pedalling. If this makes you feel better, here: I feel that it is a fact that what was posted about April is wrong. No matter how many ways you justify it, I will not feel any differently. I'm sure that you would say that it is a FACT that raping and murdering people is wrong, but to the rapists and murderers in the world, that fact is not true. It doesn't make it any less of something you hold true because they disagree. It seems silly to debate over the word usage here. I will give you that I used the word "fact" loosely. Okay?

11-22-2003, 10:07 PM	#71
HaywardNelson Belt Conveyor Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: You secret agents don't need me to tell you. Posts: 66	You can't take people like me seriously? Why, because I disagree with you? I don't think I've been out of line in arguing my point. I didn't realize that I had to become a part of the cellar borg to be taken seriously. I've made concessions. I've acknowledged when you made valid points. I would take someone who was willing to do that more seriously than someone who just fell down on his knees and changed his opinion because the majority of the people disagreed with him.

11-22-2003, 11:12 PM	#72
jeni is stuck on altair-4 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: santa cruz, california Posts: 514	you FEEL that it is a fact, and that statement is your opinion. my opinion is that rape and murder are wrong. these feelings may be fact to me, but they are still my opinion, because they are not ACTUAL to everyone else (or factual, for that matter!). besides, "wrong" and "bad" are vague words that are generally not used to define things.

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