Why do I hate the Bush Administration?

In the "for what its worth" department, since UT mentioned checked the local Colorado Springs papers, I did and found the following:

TROOP NEWS

Military Stress Officer Says Not Suicides, Just US Soldiers “Dying’ To Go Home”

23 October 2003. Al Jazeera

US soldiers who have committed suicide in Iraq were mostly just desperate to return home, and may only have meant to injure themselves.

At least 13 soldiers have committed suicide in Iraq, representing more than 10% of non-combat deaths. More case are being probed, say officials in Washington.

A military combat stress officer Captain Justin Cole, who works at a US military base in Saddam Hussein’s home town of Tikrit, on Thursday said that while a majority of soldiers are dealing well with the stress of being away from home, for some it was proving too much.

He said he had personally dealt with two self-inflicted deaths. One soldier shot himself in the leg after being told he could not go home, hitting an artery.

Another, a woman, shot herself in the stomach. He said he thought neither meant to kill themselves.

“I don’t think the issues on hand were combat issues,” he said. “I think they were missing home, very much wanting to go home and as a result did harm to themselves. Unfortunately they did pass away.”

Cole said he knew of one case where a soldier overdosed on medication and was too far from proper medical treatment to recover and that another blew off his jaw but survived.

At the base at Tikrit, on the walls of the recreation centre, cartoons show a character pleading to go home,

Cole said incidents of suicide or self-inflicted injury affected the morale of all the troops.

“There could also be a type of copycat effect, let’s say if the soldier injures himself and gets to go back home, they (other soldiers) could probably, perhaps, want to injure themselves too.”

Soldiers under stress also had to overcome the stigma of going to seek help, he said.

“For the most part it’s not that acceptable (to seek help). I think soldiers are really trained to as we say ‘suck it up and drive on’. But by the time we see them we have serious issues (to deal with), “Cole said.

AND:

Carson Soldier Faces Charge of Cowardice

Common Dreams News Center October 30, 2003, The Gazette (Colorado
Springs, Colorado), by John Diedrich

A soldier with Fort Carson’s 10th Special Forces Group has been charged with cowardice for allegedly refusing to do his duty in Iraq.

Staff Sgt. Georg Porgany, 32, a Special Forces interrogator, is charged with showing “cowardly conduct as a result of fear, in that he refused to perform his duties,” according to his charge sheet.

Instead of help, Porgany said, one of his superiors told him to “get his head out of his ass and get with the program.”

If convicted in a court-martial, the soldier faces prison time and a dishonorable discharge. He was charged Oct. 14. His first court appearance is Nov. 7 at Fort Carson.

A cowardice charge is extremely rare, military law experts say. Army officials couldn’t say Wednesday the last time it had been filed. Porgany said he is wrongly charged.

The soldier said he experienced a “panic attack” after seeing the mangled body of an Iraqi man and told his superior he was heading for a “nervous breakdown.”

After that, Porgany said he didn’t request to go on missions nor did the unit ask him to go.

Porgany said he asked for help but was denied the care soldiers with “combat stress” are supposed to receive.

An Army psychologist in Iraq said Porgany had a normal reaction to seeing the body and recommended rest and then a return to duty, the soldier said.

Instead, his commander ordered him back to Colorado Springs to face a court-martial for “misbehavior before the enemy.”

“I don’t know how asking for help qualifies as misbehavior,” Porgany said. “Something happens, you ask for help and they throw the book at you and kick you to the curb.”

Army officials declined to talk about the case.

Porgany, an intelligence soldier with the group for two years, left for Iraq on Sept. 26 from Fort Carson. He is not a Green Beret but was attached to a team of Green Berets for this mission.

The unit was working on Sept. 29 out of Samarra, north of Baghdad, when Porgany saw the body of an Iraqi man brought into the Army compound.

Soldiers on a Bradley Fighting Vehicle killed the Iraqi after he was spotted shooting a rocket-propelled grenade, Porgany said.

Porgany had never seen anything like that. Shortly after, he said, he began shaking, couldn’t focus and kept throwing up his food. Porgany said he was terrified he would be killed.

“Until you are faced with the chance you could die in two minutes, that an RPG could come through the window when you are sleeping, you don’t know how you will react,” he said.

Porgany said he told his team sergeant, a superior, that he was headed for a “nervous breakdown.”

The sergeant told him to “go away and think about what I was saying because I was throwing my career away,” Porgany said.

For the next day, Porgany said he was repeatedly told he had “one more chance to redeem himself.”

Superiors began threatening court-martial, he said.

His superiors labeled him a suicide risk, Porgany said. The soldier said he never thought of suicide and wasn’t a risk.

On Oct. 1, Porgany was sent to another base, where the 10th Special Forces Group’s higher headquarters is located.

While on that base, Porgany said he asked to talk to a chaplain, who suggested he go to a Combat Stress Management Team. He said he referred himself in for care.

He was examined by psychologist Capt. Marc Houck, who wrote in a report that “the soldier reported signs and symptoms consistent with those of a normal combat stress reaction.”

He recommended Porgany rest for a day or so and receive stress-coping skills.

Houck recommended that remaining with his unit would help Porgany’s recovery.

Those steps are typical for a soldier who experiences combat stress, said Col. Rene Robichaux, chief of the Department of Social Work at Brook Army Medical Center in Texas, who wasn’t speaking specifically about Porgany’s case.

Army psychologists are trained to let soldiers know their reactions are normal, Robichaux said.

“It is appropriate to say, ‘This is crazy over here.’ What you are doing and everyone else is doing is bizarre. Being scared is not only normal, it is life-saving. If you are not scared, there is something wrong.’”

Porgany said he returned to the 10th Group after he was examined, was ignored for more than a day and then told he was being sent home to face charges.

The soldier said he had asked three times to stay in Iraq and work through his problem.

Back in Colorado Springs, Porgany said he was ordered to see a psychologist at Fort Carson, again as a suicide risk.

The psychologist wrote that Porgany was not a suicide risk and should be returned to duty without any change.

Porgany said his security clearance has been pulled, and he is forbidden to have a gun.

Porgany questioned what might happen if troubled soldiers are afraid to come forward, noting the three soldiers who were accused of killing their wives last year after coming home from in Afghanistan.

“What is tragic is the message they are sending,” Porgany said. ”In retrospect, maybe I shouldn’t have said anything, but that is the wrong answer.”

Copyright 2003 The Gazette, Colorado Springs, CO

[wolf]

The expected suicide rate is about 11 per 100,000.

[mrnoodle]

my dad was in the navy in the 50s. He and my mom had just been married, and he had taken the bus from Norfolk to Texas to pick her up so they could move to Norfolk together. They had just gotten back into town (on the bus, with everything they owned in 2 suitcases) and had rented an apartment when dad said "I need to check in at the base." Ya know, leave was over, etc. Well, he got to base and his CO told him he was almost late, to get aboard X ship by Xhundred hours, he was going to north Africa for 6 months to 2 years. He had to borrow the change to call the house phone at their new apartment to tell mom he wasn't coming back from checking in.

Talk about no warning. So mom, pregnant by the way, got on a bus bound for home. Dad's ship got 50 miles off the coast and blew an engine, forcing them to scrap the mission and come back to Norfolk. He got back and called bus stations all the way along the route until he found the one my mom was at. Their landlord drove my dad halfway to Texas to pick up my mom.

Happily ever after, etc. etc. But surprise deployments are nothing new.

What a romantic story, Mr. Noodle! No, surprise deployments go with the territory if you are in the military. The part that intrigues me is Lisa's report that they make a surprise round-up of everyone and keep them pretty much confined for what ever length of time in a holding area before shipping them out. Still trying to track down other verification of this. Lisa really doesn't seem like the sort who would lie, though.

[wolf]

Neither did your ax murderer.

Ya gotta point there, Wolf! OUCH!

But, come on, what are the odds that I meet TWO sociopaths in such a short amount of time? There CAN'T be that many of them out there! can there?

[Elspode]

I was watching some damn dirty hippy rock and roll tv program once upon a time wherein Gregg Allman was talking about his late brother Duane. It seems that Duane's draft notice had come, and so they were getting plastered, trying to think of a way to get him out of it. They put a cast on his leg, thinking that this would get him a 4F, but when they went down to the draft board, they were told he would still be drafted after it healed up.

Undeterred, they went back home, drank more, painted a target on the cast, and Duane then shot himself in the foot through the cast (apparently, he'd been too drunk to hit his casted foot when he tried it the first time, hence the target), which then filled up with blood. They then went back to the draft board. According to Gregg, Duane got the deferment after that...for being insane.

Probably a BS story, but told by Gregg himself.

[Griff]

Insanely talented.

[Trilby]

dudes and dudettes--do I really NEED a concrete reason to hate this MF'r? I think not. I've not read your thread, enlightening though it may be, but I do know what I hate. Bush is like porn. You may not be able to define him but you know him when you are ass raped by him.

[xoxoxoBruce]

And it was an Ohio orgasm.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Brianna

dudes and dudettes--do I really NEED a concrete reason to hate this MF'r? I think not. I've not read your thread, enlightening though it may be, but I do know what I hate. Bush is like porn. You may not be able to define him but you know him when you are ass raped by him.

Hate by itself is only an emotion. A massive dislike for a politican should be based in facts. Those facts are even provided by a conservative international publication - because George Jr continues to act as was obvious 4+ years ago. Add facts to that hate - and justifiable hate is based upon logical reasoning.
85% of All Problems ...

BTW pictures are attached to those facts:

As promised, here are the results I got from posting the question on The Army Times board (isn't it cute how they put a new user in "basic training"?) The guys didn't even bother to respond which for some reason does not surprise me. I did get a couple of replies from Army wives:

Marichiko
Basic Training
Posted Sun 02 October 2005 15:31

I still live near Ft. Carson and one of my friend's husband is an E7 with orders for Iraq. Now here's what I don't understand. She says the time of his deployment is pretty vague - he could go this month or next. She says that after a certain date the guys are ordered to have all their stuff, turned in (personal belongings, etc) ready to be shipped over to Iraq. Then she says any time after that date, he could go into work and without warning be placed in a holding area with the rest of his outfit and he won't be able to leave the holding area until they are actually shipped out. She says the Army now does this because otherwise some guys will just go AWOL or pretend to be nut cases or shoot themselves in the hand to avoid deployment.

Well, that's not how it worked all those years ago when my Dad had orders for 'Nam. So is that really how troops are deployed these days or is my friend exagerating? I don't want her to think I'm questioning her word, but...

Sorry if this is a stupid question and thanks for your patience.


melrumschlag
Basic Training
Posted Sun 02 October 2005 17:03
We're at Carson as well, and my husband left in March. They were given a time frame of when they would be leaving, but it constantly changed. When he got home one Thursday, he said they'd most likely be leaving that following Monday, but they'd get 36-48 hrs notice, sure enough Friday they got that "offical" call to be at the troop at X hrs ready to leave.

Does that answer your question?


Marichiko
Basic Training
Posted Sun 02 October 2005 22:57
Thank you! Partly. I was curious about the info that troops were suddenly swooped up into holding areas predeployment for fear of a rash of awols or self-inflicted injuries otherwise.
Posts: 4 | Registered: Sun 07 August 2005

melrumschlag
Basic Training
Posted Mon 03 October 2005 05:07
I suppose it could be possible, but in all honesty when my husband left both times they didn't do anything like that.
Posts: 8 | Registered: Tue 27 September 2005

Marichiko
Basic Training
Posted Mon 03 October 2005 09:21
Well, yeah. That's what I really wondered about. I guess I can see people going AWOL from basic or something because they discover they got in over their heads, but it seems to me that by time a soldier is ready to be deployed overseas, he's not going to pull something like that. After all, you go into the military to serve your country and it hardly should come as a big shock if you are called on to fight in a war.


orchidj5
"Cowboy Thunder"

Posted Mon 03 October 2005 12:00

my husband also deployed from carson but our circumstances are a bit different-he's wyoming gaurd-im a civilian contractor on post-they were allowed to see family members for the last time on a sunday evening-could stay off post with them if they wanted-but then had to return on monday and were "locked down"-not allowed off post and limited communications for about 48 hours before they left-it wasnt to prevent injuries or AWOLS but to encourage the families to go back to Wyoming-or in my case home to Denver-so we wouldnt be hanging around waiting til they were told it was time to go-kinda stupid the way they treat reservists vs active duty on that count

[Undertoad]

Thanks Mar.

You are welcome.

[SCHUNE]

OH LET ME COUNT THE WAYS!