WikiLeaks

[Undertoad]

Well as you know, the Lamplighter filter was built during a time when we had to fight to make sure everyone was treated equally, and discrimination was the very worst problem in the world USA.

Apply that filter to everything, and now Ms. Manning is a tortured soul because of stuff everybody else did to her. Not because of her internal psychology, which was based on a solid foundation of not being certain what gender she was. I'm being sarcastic, but think of how your own world would be rocked if you woke up one day and decided you were a woman. No really, think about it, because empathy is more important than sympathy.

Just because we've put T into the ever-expanding LGBTSTGNC inclusivity alphabet soup, in order to help build a world of inclusion and understanding, doesn't mean Ts are immediately afforded the kind of stability needed to have access to all the diplomatic secrets of the US.

That kind of stability hears the mocking and becomes this (from your link):

Over time, the pressures took a toll. At Fort Drum, Manning was losing control, lashing out at his tormentors. He had trouble with roommates, screamed at superior officers, his fists in balls. His master sergeant wasn’t sure he was mentally fit to deploy to Iraq, fearing he could do harm to himself or others. By August 2009, the month of Manning’s last chats with ZJ, he’d been referred to an Army mental-health counselor. Even online, his bravado slipped away. On August 7, 2009, almost six months after he first reached out to ZJ, he popped up on her screen. It was 11:30 p.m., a Friday night at Fort Drum. “i don’t mean to sound over*dramatic, but im quite lonely,” he told her.

These are the words of a person with a TOP SECRET SECURITY CLEARANCE and you know what? I don't care why her troubles came about. The Army can become a mirror for the society's need for social fairness and inclusion. The top secret security clearance, however, cannot.

The Army knew she was troubled. If they had to overlook that because she was a T, as the Lamplighter filter suggests, then we have bigger problems and a lot more troubled people are going to get 35 year sentences.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Manning thought of himself as honorable, even heroic
—“I guess I’m too idealistic,” he said. “i want people to see the truth
… regardless of who they are … because without information,
you cannot make informed decisions as a public.”

Horseshit. If you see something wrong, you leak the evidence of that wrong to the press, so the American public will become aware of that wrong and pressure the politicians to fix it. You don't take hundreds of thousands of documents you haven't even read and give them to a foreign national.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Horseshit. If you see something wrong, you leak the evidence of that wrong to the press, so the American public will become aware of that wrong and pressure the politicians to fix it. You don't take hundreds of thousands of documents you haven't even read and give them to a foreign national.

so, you'd say, right response, wrong execution?

[xoxoxoBruce]

The need for whistle blowers has proven to be valid, and they should be protected.
But this clown is no whistle blower, he's just an attention whore traitor. He exposed material that he had no idea if it was putting the lives of our soldiers, or anyone else, at risk or not. That's because he didn't give two shits about anyone but himself.

[Griff]

Manning did what she thought she had to do. She obviously isn't as bright or organized as Snowden but I don't want my whistleblowers to have to take IQ tests. She did what she thought she needed to, which in the context of Snowden's work appears sloppy and dangerous but there isn't a handbook for this.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

... The Army knew she was troubled. If they had to overlook that because she was a T ...

They did. That was the political agenda. Why do you suppose we don't hear more about Manning's supervisors, commanders; or, proponency oversight?

Originally Posted by Undertoad

... then we have bigger problems and a lot more troubled people are going to get 35 year sentences.

Not likely. While being a transitioning T is a predisposing factor and may pose a risk that warrants access restriction for some, not all of them will become attention whoring traitors. That was a character flaw intrinsic to Manning. Xob struck the nail a true blow:

Manning is a disgrace to any associated cause.

Originally Posted by Griff

Manning did what she thought she had to do. ... She did what she thought she needed to, ...

If you choose to believe what a vindictive attention whoring traitor says to rationalize being a vindictive attention whoring traitor.

Originally Posted by Griff

... I don't want my whistleblowers to have to take IQ tests. ...

Neither do I. It makes it much easier to catch the ones who are just attention whoring traitors and put them behind bars.

[Griff]

Let's just remember that under cross-examination the prosecution witnesses revealed that no deaths or casualties have been connected to any WikiLeaks information. Manning was only a traitor to the criminals he exposed. He could have done a much better job but people don't always respond well to stress of realizing their organization has been corrupted. Obviously, I know Bush and Cheney were the biggest traitors so far this century so that's going to color my thinking.

[Undertoad]

Affected were not just Bush-n-Cheney, or any other particular scapegoat you'd care to name, but pretty much every government in every major nation, going back as far as 1966. Some of them must have been innocent, or at least, you know, fairly elected under rule of law.

Tunisia (and thus, roughly, the Arab Spring) was blamed on it, so I guess only "bad guys" died, or something. Or maybe the witnesses were saying that nobody was tried in a court of law, for things said in diplomatic cables, and then killed for it. Or something.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Griff

... Bush and Cheney were the biggest traitors so far this century ...

I concur.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

... Or something.

I concur.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by sexobon

Not likely. While being a transitioning T is a predisposing factor and may pose a risk that warrants access restriction for some, not all of them will become attention whoring traitors. That was a character flaw intrinsic to Manning.

Does nobody know how to read English? Undertoad posted an excerpt demonstrating that the organization knew the individual was mentally unstable--for whatever reason. And he stated that he doesn't care, and that it doesn't matter, what the reason is. The only differentiating factor regarding this person's gender identity is that IF the organization was afraid to place normal restrictions on an individual who was exhibiting unstable behavior--regardless of the alleged reason--then that IS ƒucked up. The entire point is that the reason doesn't matter. The thing where someone ƒucked up is when they did an overcompensating cartwheel right over the edge of a cliff that common sense should have warned them about.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Flint

... IF the organization was afraid to place normal restrictions on an individual who was exhibiting unstable behavior--regardless of the alleged reason--then that IS ƒucked up. ...

I don't think anyone is disputing that. The conversation covers both reasons for Manning's behavior and reasons for the Army's behavior. Regarding the latter, Undertoad opined that the Army let a troubled Manning remain in position because it apparently didn't care. Lamplighter said Undertoad's opinion was silly unless Manning's superiors already knew information was being leaked; but, didn't otherwise address the Army's handling of Manning's untoward behavior. I opined that politics forced the Army to accept Manning as is; so, they allowed Manning to remain in position until a serious infraction occurred.

Originally Posted by Flint

... The entire point is that the reason doesn't matter. ...

The reason for Manning's troubles shouldn't matter. Security clearances are; however, political in nature and that's what makes the reason relevant to discussing the Army's actions.

[Flint]

This is unacceptable.
I DEMAND that we disagree about something.

Pistols at dawn on the main promenade.

[infinite monkey]

FIGHT!

[Clodfobble]

Oh Lordy, it's on!

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Flint

Pistols at dawn on the main promenade.

Water pistols, loaded with tequila, taking each other's best shots. Glorious way to start the day!

Our seconds, Infi and Clod, will administer lime juice and salt until only one is left standing.