Power squid

[busterb]

Kinda neat, not so neat price. http://www.powersquid.net/index.htm

[Troubleshooter]

Go 'Pods!

[tw]

Originally Posted by busterb

Kinda neat, not so neat price. http://www.powersquid.net/index.htm

Nice idea ... until I look for critically important numbers. Up front and most essential - no approval label from Underwriters Laboratory nor from CSA. That alone is a very large downside.

Then it contains MOVs. That means it must also have a UL 1449 approval. It does not.

Third, any power expansion device must have a 15 amp circuit breaker. This 'missing' circuit breaker on plug moles (another type of power expansion device) caused completely unnecessary death to numerous dogs in a nearby kennel. There is no exception from this last requirement. It must have a 15 amp circuit breaker.

Fourth, it uses MOVs where MOVs will not be effective. Even worse are examples of MOV protectors that also met UL1449 and still endangered human life:
http://www.westwhitelandfire.com/Art...Protectors.pdf

Another product that would be useful and is not commonly found is an equivalent device that contains arc-fault protection. Cellar dwellers would remember the Christmas tree fire that literally drove Dave and his family out of the house in only five minutes. Many pets were lost. This fire avoidable had the Christmas tree been lit through an arc-fault protected power expansion device. Something that can be installed in the circuit breaker box and is now required on all bedroom circuits. Something that is useful protection for special functions such as Christmas tree lights. Something that is still not available in hardware stores except as part of AC mains circuit breakers.

That squid 'power expansion device' does address a problem of large plugs and 'power bricks'. But does so at serious expense of human safety. For the price, I would expect it to contain an arc-fault circuit, or at minimum, a 15 amp fuse. It contains none of that. But it contains MOVs where MOVs provide no benefit AND where MOVs create a human safety problem.

[Undertoad]

Furthermore...

The design is broken. It's a neat design, but after listing all these considerations about how your components are protected, they put this big on-off switch right on top where your dog can step on it. Since the whole thing seems to have no flat surface, the button can wind up sitting face-down, along with the indicator lights, where the whole thing can shut off anywhere people step on it.

This is a problem with most power strip designs, but usually you can tape a rocker switch open, if it's in a place where it might get stepped on.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by tw

Another product that would be useful and is not commonly found is an equivalent device that contains arc-fault protection. .... Something that can be installed in the circuit breaker box and is now required on all bedroom circuits.

Last spring, we had a new electrical box installed in our house because water infiltration had ruined the previous one. We got an upgrade so that there is room to add additional circuits in the future if we choose to. We had a well respected, licensed electrician do the work, and told him that we wanted high quality materials to be used. I'm no expert in wiring, but his work was very neat and tidy - a good indicator of attention to detail in other areas. The county's electrical inspector came by and checked the work. He made a point of checking the grounding of the box, both inside at the water pipe, and outside at two rods in the ground, and he also checked a few random connections to make sure they were tight enough.

We did not have arc-fault protection put on any circuits. It wasn't even brought up by anyone. The inspector was apparently fine with this.

So is this a new national electrical code standard? As of when?

[busterb]

Is arc-fault the same as ground-fault interrupter? What I read said the product was still being tested by???

IMPORTANT:
The Flexity PowerSquid Surge Protector is currently in the process of laboratory safety testing and is not yet available. The estimated release date is Spring 2006, however, this date cannot be guaranteed.

[dar512]

This is not as fancy, but cheaper and available now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That looks like a winner, dar.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

We did not have arc-fault protection put on any circuits. It wasn't even brought up by anyone. The inspector was apparently fine with this.

So is this a new national electrical code standard? As of when?

Arc fault breakers are required on all new or rehabbed bedroom circuits as of 2002. A bedroom is where electrical fires are most dangerous due to so many combustible materials and due to common use of things such as zip extension cords that get crushed and shorted by beds.

An arc fault breaker is different from a GFCI. An arc fault breaker detects the shorted wires that are arcing - and quickly removes power. In Dave's case (as I recall), his wife plugged in a Christmas tree, saw the arc, then house was engulfed in 5 minutes. This is a wiring failure that arc fault breakers detect and quash.

GFCI detect electricity that may be going through your body. GFCIs cut off electricity before you can be electrocuted. GFCIs don't detect arcing that would create a fire. GFCIs are required in kitchen and bathroom outlets. AGFI or arc fault breakers are required on bedroom circuits including (for some reason) overhead bedroom lights.

[zippyt]

GFCI detect electricity that may be going through your body.
GFCIs cut off electricity before you can be electrocuted. (arcing to ground )
GFCIs don't detect arcing that would create a fire. ( ??? arcing to ground ??
if not ground then what is it arcing to ????)
GFCIs are required in kitchen and bathroom outlets.
AGFI or arc fault breakers are required on bedroom circuits including (for some reason) overhead bedroom lights.

I guess I am cornfused ( misspelled on purpose ) .

An arc accoures becauch of a potential of voltage from hot to ground , in an electrical pannel nuteral and ground are the same thing ( tied to the SAME bus bar and then to a ground rod in residential circuts ) .
So is this AGFI like a circut breaker for the nuteral as well ????
I have seen a voltage potential from nuteral to ground befor ( micro processers HATE that !!!!!) but unless a building is JUST fixing to burn down the WORST voltage potential is along the lines of .25 Vac .
GFCIs open when they see a connection from hot to ground , SO since the nuteral and ground are the same ( give or take a little bit ) what is the benifits of a AGFI ???

I am NOT an electrical engineer , but I DO have to put up with some WAAAAAY messed up power in EXTREME situations WAAAAAY out in the boonies .

[eiffelenator]

This is a good idea, just like the newer computer PSUs that have plugs instead of dongles. You just use the cables you need.

[wolf]

One of the problems of sending me to geektoys.com to look at something is that I find about $150 worth of other crap that it would be really cool to have ...

[tw]

Originally Posted by zippyt

[i]So is this AGFI like a circut breaker for the nuteral as well ????

A conventional circuit breaker cuts off power when current in the hot (black) wire becomes excessive. This so that wires do not get hot and burn down a house. That is tens or hundreds of amps only on hot wire.

GFCI circuit breakers do same AND monitor for a current difference. If the current going out does not match the current coming back, then a human may be at risk. This current difference is 0.005 amps. So the GFCI monitors for excessive outgoing tens or hundreds of amps AND monitors that all current going out also comes back - detects 0.005 amps difference between hot (black) and neutral (white) wire.

AGFI breakers contain both above functions AND monitors for a sudden increase of those tens or hundreds of amps. That sudden increase would be two AC wires inside the cable shorting. That would be an arc that could create a fire. This last function monitors current changes to quash an arc that would ignite the Christmas tree or bedroom rug.

Those are the three basic circuit breakers now required in home wiring.

Meanwhile, the 15 amp breaker is required on all power expansion devices. This requirement from a completely different safety standards organization: UL.

[chawker]

Hello. I am the inventor of the PowerSquid TM (both the less expensive non-surge model and the more expesnive surge models you discuss) and I stumbled across your thread while surfing around and wanted to at least set the record straight on a couple issues.

1. The PowerSquid Surge Protector line is currently undergoing lab testing (MET Lab and UL) under 1449 and won't be sold until it has passed (and is even built to new 2007 standards)

2. The product absolutely features a 15-amp circuit breaker built into the switch (as required).

3. The switch is recessed, so if you step on it (even upside down), it is unlikely to depress the switch.

4. MOVs DO provide benefit, absorbing excess voltage (ino our case, anything over 330V)to prevent harm to your equipment. They do wear out over time. The higher the joule rating the more surge it can absorb. Surge protection that doesn't wear out exists at a much higher cost, but the vast majority utilize MOVs (Metal Oxide Varistors).

5. The PowerSquid also features a thermal fuse (Tripwire) that physically severs the circuit when the last MOV fails, thereby preventing any additional current from flowing. This prevents the surge protector from becoming a 'dummy' (still passing power but without any protection) and also protects from catastrophic events like lightning.

Like I said, this is just to set the record straight on the features of the PowerSquid. I hope you are all enjoying your days

[xoxoxoBruce]

Welcome to the Cellar, chawker. Always a pleasure to talk to the horses mouth in that we hear enough from horses asses. Be sure and check back for questions.