Will the Second Amendment survive?

[xoxoxoBruce]

The second amendment came about because Americans rejected the royale we.... any royale we.... all royale we's.

[BrianR]

Powerful US gun lobby searches for owners of guns seized by police after Hurricane Katrina
The Associated Press
Published: December 26, 2007

NEW ORLEANS: A powerful gun lobby organization has hired private investigators to track down hundreds of gun owners whose firearms were seized by New Orleans police after Hurricane Katrina, according to court papers filed this week.

The National Rifle Association is trying to locate gun owners for a federal lawsuit that the lobbying group filed against Mayor Ray Nagin and Police Superintendent Warren Riley over the city's seizure of firearms after the Aug. 29, 2005, hurricane.

As the flooded city descended into chaos and looting, authorities said they took guns from abandoned homes and from people trying to take the guns into shelters or onto evacuation buses in an effort to keep them out of criminals' hands. As the local police were overwhelmed, the National Guard was called in to assist in patrols.

The NRA's lawsuit marks a continuation of the group's efforts to protect Americans' constitutional right to bear arms. The group's influence in the U.S. Congress has been cited by critics as being behind most efforts to block gun law reforms.

In the lawsuit, which is set for trial in February, the NRA and the Second Amendment Foundation claim the city violated gun owners' right to bear arms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The lawsuit says the gun owners were left "at the mercy of roving gangs, home invaders, and other criminals" after Katrina.
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The NRA says the city seized more than 1,000 guns that were not part of any criminal investigation after the hurricane. Police have said they took only guns that had been stolen or found in abandoned homes.

In April 2006, police made about 700 firearms available for owners to claim if they could present a bill of sale or an affidavit with the weapon's serial number.

In court papers filed Monday, NRA attorneys say investigators have found few of the guns' owners because the storm has scattered so many residents.

NRA lawyer Daniel Holliday said investigators have identified about 300 of the gun owners and located about 75 of them. Some could be called to testify during a trial, he added.

"Finding these folks has been a nightmare," Holliday said. "That is really the guts of our case — to establish that there was indeed a pattern of the police going out and taking people's guns without any legal reason to do so."

The NRA is asking that the February trial be postponed.

"Since a primary objective of this litigation is to cause the return of seized firearms to their lawful owners, more time is necessary to locate them," NRA lawyers wrote.

A U.S. District judge had not yet ruled on the request Wednesday.

Chris Cox, the NRA's chief lobbyist, said the group will not be satisfied until the police department has returned all the guns or reimbursed their owners.

Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, said the police department has returned only about 100 of the 1,000 seized guns.

"Obviously, we don't expect the city to find everybody. We only wanted to see a good-faith effort, and that's what the city didn't do," Gottlieb said. "It's a bad example to let them get away with it."

An attorney for the city and a police department spokesman did not return telephone calls for comment Wednesday.

[Ibby]

I loathe the NRA, but this time I agree with them. Taking the guns was just plain wrong.

[TheMercenary]

A little late but people are on the issue never the less...

N.O. Police Returning Guns Confiscated Post-Katrina
Wednesday, April 19, 2006

NEW ORLEANS — Under pressure from the National Rifle Association, police this week began returning guns confiscated after Hurricane Katrina.

The police department is making the guns available three days a week. At the close of the second day Wednesday, police said only 17 of about 700 weapons had been returned.

Police and soldiers removed guns from houses after the storm flooded the city, and they confiscated guns from some evacuees.

The NRA and other groups sued the city, saying it took away people's means of protection amid the lawlessness that gripped New Orleans.

"Natural disasters may destroy great cities, but they do not destroy civil rights," said Alan Gottlieb, founder of the Second Amendment Foundation, which joined the NRA in the lawsuit.

The lawsuit was dropped after the city agreed to return the guns.

Some owners complained it was difficult to get them back. Gun owners must bring a bill of sale or an affidavit with the weapon's serial number. Police also are running criminal background checks on those claiming weapons.


Some gun owners found the weapons were evidence in a crime and not eligible for release. Others did not have the proper paperwork.

Percy Taplet, 73, said the National Guard and state police confiscated his shotgun when they arrived to tell him to leave his house. When he tried to get his gun back this week, police told him he would have to contact state police.

"I won't ever see that gun again, believe me," Taplet said. "It's gone like everything else in that storm."

Police Superintendent Warren Riley said police had legitimate reasons for confiscating weapons.

"We took guns that were stolen that were stashed in alleyways. If we went into an abandoned house and a gun was there, absolutely we took the weapons," he said. "Obviously there were looters out there. We didn't want some burglar or looter to have an opportunity to arm themselves."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192347,00.html

[Ibby]

They do have a point. Taking a gun from an abandoned house, while slightly ethically dubious (invasion of privacy/space), is a fairly reasonable disaster response. However, taking guns from people who are actually present or with the weapon, wrong.

[TheMercenary]

Yea, we call that "covering one's ass in the press". I would have come up with some lame excuse as well if I were the Police Chief about to have my ass handed to me in a lawsuit I know I would never win. Most cops I have met completely support the legal civilian ownership of guns and CCW permit holders.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I cannot "loathe the NRA" because I've been getting better informed about what they actually do, and because they are an antigenocide NGO in the way absolutely no other non-gun group can be. This is both the NRA, singular, and its political wing, the NRA-ILA.

Also we NRA'ers inconvenience tyrants.

So what's not to like?

[Radar]

I can't stand the NRA. They are hypocrites and liars. They consider themselves part of the Republican party. They will support a Republican candidate who favors gun control over a Libertarian candidate who opposes any kind of gun control. They are actually very rude to LP candidates. They aren't much of a real inconvenience to tyrants. At least not as much as the JPFO. I love these guys and I'm not even Jewish and nobody knows more about the genocide that occurs through gun control like the Jews.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

I'm very fond of the JPFO myself -- but then, I'm the sort who seeks allies and coalitions in political doings, and whatever your other virtues, Radar, you most definitely aren't. (An observation, from me to you, that you will completely yet unwisely ignore: that isn't politic.)

I've noticed NRA-ILA doesn't endorse LP candidates much, and the reasons are clear: one, NRA-ILA likes to maintain good credibility among the electorate, so they endorse the people they think are the likely winners among those pols they like. And face it: Libertarian Party candidates are so uniformly and emphatically pro-gun that NRA-ILA has to spend precisely zero effort influencing either the candidate or his supporting activists on gun rights and policy. So, yeah, taken for granted -- with complete justice. And the NRA lobbyist will drop by after you've won office, all right?

The JPFO, whose arguments for assault rifles as preventers of genocide totally blow their opponents out of the water, reducing to a smoking hole any "Theory of the Evil Gun Type." Good for them!

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I'm very fond of the JPFO myself -- but then, I'm the sort who seeks allies and coalitions in political doings, and whatever your other virtues, Radar, you most definitely aren't. (An observation, from me to you, that you will completely yet unwisely ignore: that isn't politic.)

I've noticed NRA-ILA doesn't endorse LP candidates much, and the reasons are clear: one, NRA-ILA likes to maintain good credibility among the electorate, so they endorse the people they think are the likely winners among those pols they like. And face it: Libertarian Party candidates are so uniformly and emphatically pro-gun that NRA-ILA has to spend precisely zero effort influencing either the candidate or his supporting activists on gun rights and policy. So, yeah, taken for granted -- with complete justice. And the NRA lobbyist will drop by after you've won office, all right?

The JPFO, whose arguments for assault rifles as preventers of genocide totally blow their opponents out of the water, reducing to a smoking hole any "Theory of the Evil Gun Type." Good for them!

Who needs the NRA AFTER being elected. The whole point of having an NRA endorsement is to have it to help you get elected. Saying they won't support pro-gun libertarians in favor of gun-control supporting Republicans who are more likely to get elected is like saying...."I won't vote for you unless you don't need my vote. I won't offer my support to those who have the same position as me unless they don't need my support."

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Which is not what I was saying, in any particular.