Organic Gardening

Big Sarge · 02-11-2012, 04:35 PM

Ya'll all know I've downsized & I'm pretty much off the grid. I've leased 347 acres of mixed pines and hard woods. I have several open fields. To make some extra money, I'm thinking about organic gardening. The soil is red clay and pretty acidic (pine needles). If I me the fields, will that remove the "organic" status??

I'll be using hand tools. Any ideas? I'm thinking about growing heirloom vegetables. I don't like hybrids/

HungLikeJesus · 02-11-2012, 04:45 PM

Why organic Sarge?

footfootfoot · 02-11-2012, 07:32 PM

Sarge,

My advice to you is to hook up with your local cooperative extension and take the master gardener course. IT will really help separate fact from fantasy in the world of gardening. 99% of what you read in gardening books, especially "organic" ones, is complete BS. Most gardening books are written by people who collect information from other gardening books that were written by people who collected information from other gardening books that were written by people who collected information from other gardening books that were written by people who collected information from other gardening books that were written by people who spent way too much time in the sun.

I garden organically essentially, but the term is meaningless now. The USDA got involved in creating a legal definition for the term "Organic" at the behest of lobbying groups for Big Agribiz. In doing so, they allow all sorts of things that would not be considered kosher and denied many things that were effective and relatively harmless.

Heirlooms and OP (open pollinated) have their place as do Hybrids. If you are into seed saving then you want OP or heirloom. The most important thing is to find out from old timers what grows well in your area. Don't get sucked into the seed catalog hype.

Again, I strongly suggest getting in touch with your extension ervice and at least chatting with them.

As for soil pH, have the pH checked, learn how to do that from coop extension (they usually do a pH test for free--avoid the crappy kits and whiz-bang gizmos)
Lime or wood ash will make an acid soil more alkaline, it won't change your organic status in anyone's eyes, but you may not want an alkaline soil unless you are trying to grow a lawn. Most plants like slightly acid soils. Read up on what your plants like and again talk to old timers and cooperative extension.

and have fun.

Big Sarge · 02-11-2012, 09:29 PM

good advice. i'll hit up the local co-op and see if they will do my soil testing. I've grown heirlooms before from Baker Seed Co. They have always seen like a good bunch. What do you think?

zippyt · 02-11-2012, 10:36 PM

County extension office

ZenGum · 02-12-2012, 06:29 PM

Clay + pine needles = shitty soil. Pity they wouldn't let you live near the old sewage lagoon.

As already said: find someone in your area with similar conditions, ask them for advice. What worked great 100 ks away might be useless for you.

You might think about putting in a few raised garden beds and getting them filled with good soil. This avoids struggling with poor soil, reduces bending/ back problems, makes fencing Vs critturs easier. Aliantha's garden has some examples. There would be set up costs, though.

Or did you mean "organic"

?

you allowed to do that,

man?

footfootfoot · 02-12-2012, 10:07 PM

http://tomclothier.hort.net/

Griff · 02-13-2012, 05:30 AM

Heck of an archive!

footfootfoot · 02-13-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

Heck of an archive!

He has a great section on soil and pH, he examines the chicken and egg theory of pine needled acidifying the soil. (Not)

Pines require acid soil to germinate, they wouldn't have grown in the first place if the soil weren't acid. He points out that decaying organic matter moves toward neutrality.

Big Sarge · 02-13-2012, 11:03 AM

Really great info on that site

02-11-2012, 04:35 PM	#1
Big Sarge Werepandas - lurking in your shadows Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the Deep South Posts: 3,408	Organic Gardening Ya'll all know I've downsized & I'm pretty much off the grid. I've leased 347 acres of mixed pines and hard woods. I have several open fields. To make some extra money, I'm thinking about organic gardening. The soil is red clay and pretty acidic (pine needles). If I me the fields, will that remove the "organic" status?? I'll be using hand tools. Any ideas? I'm thinking about growing heirloom vegetables. I don't like hybrids/ __________________ Give a man a match, & he'll be warm for 20 seconds. But toss that man a white phosphorus grenade and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

02-11-2012, 04:45 PM	#2
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	Why organic Sarge? __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

02-11-2012, 07:32 PM	#3
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	Sarge, My advice to you is to hook up with your local cooperative extension and take the master gardener course. IT will really help separate fact from fantasy in the world of gardening. 99% of what you read in gardening books, especially "organic" ones, is complete BS. Most gardening books are written by people who collect information from other gardening books that were written by people who collected information from other gardening books that were written by people who collected information from other gardening books that were written by people who collected information from other gardening books that were written by people who spent way too much time in the sun. I garden organically essentially, but the term is meaningless now. The USDA got involved in creating a legal definition for the term "Organic" at the behest of lobbying groups for Big Agribiz. In doing so, they allow all sorts of things that would not be considered kosher and denied many things that were effective and relatively harmless. Heirlooms and OP (open pollinated) have their place as do Hybrids. If you are into seed saving then you want OP or heirloom. The most important thing is to find out from old timers what grows well in your area. Don't get sucked into the seed catalog hype. Again, I strongly suggest getting in touch with your extension ervice and at least chatting with them. As for soil pH, have the pH checked, learn how to do that from coop extension (they usually do a pH test for free--avoid the crappy kits and whiz-bang gizmos) Lime or wood ash will make an acid soil more alkaline, it won't change your organic status in anyone's eyes, but you may not want an alkaline soil unless you are trying to grow a lawn. Most plants like slightly acid soils. Read up on what your plants like and again talk to old timers and cooperative extension. and have fun. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

02-11-2012, 09:29 PM	#4
Big Sarge Werepandas - lurking in your shadows Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the Deep South Posts: 3,408	good advice. i'll hit up the local co-op and see if they will do my soil testing. I've grown heirlooms before from Baker Seed Co. They have always seen like a good bunch. What do you think? __________________ Give a man a match, & he'll be warm for 20 seconds. But toss that man a white phosphorus grenade and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

02-11-2012, 10:36 PM	#5
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	County extension office __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

02-12-2012, 06:29 PM	#6
ZenGum Doctor Wtf Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Badelaide, Baustralia Posts: 12,861	Clay + pine needles = shitty soil. Pity they wouldn't let you live near the old sewage lagoon. As already said: find someone in your area with similar conditions, ask them for advice. What worked great 100 ks away might be useless for you. You might think about putting in a few raised garden beds and getting them filled with good soil. This avoids struggling with poor soil, reduces bending/ back problems, makes fencing Vs critturs easier. Aliantha's garden has some examples. There would be set up costs, though. Or did you mean "organic" ? you allowed to do that, man? __________________ Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008. Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.

02-12-2012, 10:07 PM	#7
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	http://tomclothier.hort.net/ __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

02-13-2012, 05:30 AM	#8
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Heck of an archive! __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

02-13-2012, 11:03 AM	#10
Big Sarge Werepandas - lurking in your shadows Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the Deep South Posts: 3,408	Really great info on that site __________________ Give a man a match, & he'll be warm for 20 seconds. But toss that man a white phosphorus grenade and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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