Happy Tax Day!

[Griff]

Tax Day greetings from Murray Rothbard.

[slang]

"forms of that one weapon, that one act of the public which our rulers fear the most: tax rebellion, the cutting off the funds by which the host public is sapped to maintain the parasitic ruling classes."


We are in complete agreement on the taxation issue.

The thing I would like to see is the system simplifed so as to expose to every schmuck in the country exactly how much the income tax system is taking away from your lifestyle and personal wealth.

Lets discontinue withholding for 2 years. The masses would be amazed. The gov't would be fearful.

It has long been my personal belief that the current system is purposely designed to confuse the average American. If the tax rate is truly fair, lets not hide it under scads of BS.

Oddly enough, the *paying* of the tax is not nearly as irritating as the forms that you have to sign under threat of death or worse if you happen to screw up. Thats un American and we should change it.

[SteveDallas]

Originally posted by slang
Oddly enough, the *paying* of the tax is not nearly as irritating as the forms that you have to sign under threat of death or worse if you happen to screw up. Thats un American and we should change it.

I agree--I don't mind paying my fair share for government services. [Let's save the argument about what my fair share is for another time.] But it's beyond me how anybody could defend the tax code as it's currently structured.

Oh, wait it's not beyond me. The bureaucracy perpetuates itself. If all the complications disappeared, so would tons of IRS employees, not to mention the work that would be lot by accountants, publishers of tax books & software, etc. etc. etc.

By the way, I note that the President and Mrs. Bush had taxable income of $771,940 for 2002, and paid $268,719 in federal income taxes, a whopping 34.8% rate. What I wonder is: 1) how much NONTAXABLE income did they have? and 2) Did they tell their accountant to avoid saving a bunch of money for the sake of appearances?

[nautiq]

they send me a form saying how i can do my taxes on the phone if im eligible, but then the phone tells me that im not eligible to do it on the phone and heres another number i can call to get the forms that i need mailed to me in a week or 2.

for crying out loud, why cant they just send me the paper forms anyway!!!!?

okay thats off my chest

[Uryoces]

What boggles my mind are people that want a flat tax. Many people get back a shitload anyway -- or avoid paying because they can squirt the puppies out. Flat means a perecntage disappears, no ifs, ands or buts. Bush and people in the 34% tax bracket would pay less. If we're talking about graduations in the "flat" tax, we're back where we started.

The problem is that our econonomy is a continuously running entitiy, non-stop, 24 hours a day. You wouldn't make major changes to a server while it was running would you? Tax reform would take planning and phasing that would span at least a decade, but that crosses presidential elections. What Gore would have in mind is not what Bush would have in mind, and definitely not what Nader would have in mind.

[xoxoxoBruce]

for crying out loud, why cant they just send me the paper forms anyway!!!!?

Can you print out the forms online??

[Skunks]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce

Can you print out the forms online??

<a href="http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/">Yeah.</a>

(They probably even have a nicer inteface than a directory listing. I just don't care to find it.)

[nautiq]

Originally posted by xoxoxoBruce

Can you print out the forms online??

yep but i didnt have access at the time so i had them mail the forms to me.

It was just annoying because they sent me the instruction book that the 1040 forms are usually included in.

[elSicomoro]

Originally posted by Uryoces
What boggles my mind are people that want a flat tax. Many people get back a shitload anyway -- or avoid paying because they can squirt the puppies out. Flat means a perecntage disappears, no ifs, ands or buts. Bush and people in the 34% tax bracket would pay less. If we're talking about graduations in the "flat" tax, we're back where we started.

Funny...Slang and I had this discussion the other night...Slang for it, me against it. Of course, we all know I'm right on that one by default, since slang is a no good hillbilly.

[slang]

Originally posted by sycamore
since slang is a no good hillbilly.

That is very easily confused by the current system. I can calculate beam strength and deflection, shear strength of most industrial metals and deformation of a wide variety of plastics. Accounting is perplexing for some strange reason (as well as the proper use of the English language).


I can handle the flate tax though.

[tw]

The instructions for the short form - 1040A - are now longer than they were seven years ago for the long form - 1040. Cute ideas such as George Jr's tax rebates and tax cuts are designed so that they increase tax law complexity. So those who created the problem - Congress and president - blame the IRS.

Even that 34% tax on the rich is nonsense. As the Economist once demonstrated, even the rich only pay typically 20 some % taxes on their income. Tax loopholes are widespread, intentionally well hidden, and encouraged by an industry that can afford to legally bribe politicians for 'tax reform'.

In the year of tax simplification, I files a new record - 13 Federal forms. That same year, and for years afterwards, both Carnical Cruise and a TX baseball team paid no taxes either by outright tax exemption written tino the law OR by loopholes.

Congress don't even file their own taxes. Expensive tax lawyers are paid by government to file Congressman and White House taxes. Just another advantge when one lives in the ethersphere. They don't have a clue about the tax laws that they reform to make the economy productive.

Productive? Today, most people now hire tax accountants to file because laws are so complex. This increases GNP and reduces unemployment. Classic government solution. Train people in a complex game which means they cost more. Make it necessary for all citizens to have to hire these more expensive people. Therefore GNP increases and unemplyment goes down. Forget that this only makes America less productive. But Congress does not care. Those numbers make Congress look better AND affords many new fields to demand legalized bribery.

Tax lawyers and acountant and even all that tax software are really just more new taxes. Two years ago, Kiplinger Tax Cut took 6 months to finally refund my rebate check. Last year they billed me four times for the State Tax software - defective FTP software - AND then never did honor all the rebates I was do. Rebate programs have a percentage of 'not honored' application they must meet, know that many of those rebates will never be received, AND play money games (float) with all that money. Just another tax on a public. No wonder those tax preparation software companies don't complain about tax laws.

Maybe if we required Congress to file their own taxes, then they would be interested in learning what the word reform really means. But that too is an idea that lives in the ethersphere.

[tw]

Something new in tax filing. Download each form from both State and Federal government with macros, so that information is typed in and stored directly on that form. Simply print (rather than hand write) that form. But again, another secret tax. If using free Adobe, then you cannot save the entries - only print them. Purchase the full Adobe 5.0 Reader to save your form - so that modifications can be reprinted.

Unfortunately, these Adobe forms still don't automatically add all columns (numbers). But a printed form that can be modified and reprinted is still better than a painful handwritten form.

These forms could be submitted FTP to the government. But tax preparation software companies will fight this. They want your tax costs to increase - for increased profits. Heaven forbid if the government would make tax submissions easier without them gettting a piece of the action. So and again, Congress has just another good reason to encourage legalized bribery - this time from tax preparation software industry.

[Radar]

Income taxation is indeed robbery. But many people don't know that the constitutional parts of government can be paid with the tariffs and excise taxes already collected and that income based taxes are unconstitutional and therefore voluntary.

The income tax is unconstitutional for several reasons. Probably the most important is that the 16th amendment was never ratified by the required number of states. Several courts have said that it is, but thier decisions violate the constitution and perpetuate a judicial conspiracy to continue the fraud of taxes.

Joe Bannister is a former gun-carrying IRS special agent who worked happily busted people for the iRS. He did this for years and became one of their top agents before he heard that income taxes were voluntary. Then he researched it and the more he searched the more he realized that there is no law in America that compels us to pay income taxes. He wrote up a 90 page report with his findings and gave it to his supervisors and told them that he swore an oath to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States and requested them to please show him the law that compels people to pay income taxes so he could uphold that oath. After several years working for them as one of their top agents, did they show him the law? Of course not. They said they wouldn't give him any information and they'd accept his resignation. Joe and other IRS agents like John Turner have left when they realized the truth.

If you want more information check out some of these sites:

http://www.freedomabovefortune.com

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com

http://www.givemeliberty.org

http://www.livefreenow.org

http://www.freeenterprisesociety.com

http://www.patriotnetwork.info

[wolf]

The income tax is like paying for magazine subscriptions.

No matter how much you send in, in doesn't REALLY pay for anything. Magazines are not supported by the subscription revenues ... in fact, all magazines and newspapers could be given away free with no perceptible change in the level of profit (which is generated through advertising).

Same goes for the running of the gov't. Taxes don't pay for the govt. The fear of what might happen for not paying taxes keep the people under control. The money the gov't really runs on is created out of thin air by the Federal Reserve.

That being said ... did mine. Way earlier than usual (I phoned in the state and federal last thursday, mailed the locals yesterday.)

So, radar, are you going to take a stand for the little guy, join the tax freedom movement, and refuse to file from now on? Let us know how it works out for you.

[wolf]

Originally posted by sycamore
since slang is a no good hillbilly.

Slang is a perfectly good hillbilly, and don't you forget it.

I happen to be one of the flat tax peoples as well. I think that there should be no wiggle room on it. No deductions for this, that, other, business expense, or higher numbers of progeny.

Make a bunch of money, send 15%.