Bush's Shrinking Safety Zone

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by tw

85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. Federal agents had plenty of power and information to stop domestic terrorism. When George Jr failed to read his PDB, then people died. When Clinton read his PDBs, then Millennium attacks all over the world were halted.

85% of all hairs removed from one's ass are .37 inches long. It is apparent to any independent-minded reader of your one-sided drivel that you are so disinterested in the truth that you will omit any salient fact that controverts your wafer-thin conclusions.

Go ahead and call me a ditto head and/or a W supporter or whatever your weekly Al Franken talking points memo instruct you to do. I'm neither. I think for myself and, unlike you, I consider facts that don't agree with a concusion faxed to me before I've had a chance to examine it. I think its pretty ironic if not hilarious that while you scoff at management buffoons, you make the exact mistake that they make by allowing the conclusion to precede the analysis. You could care less about the truth. All you are interested in is wounding the object of your derision. And while I have no interest in muting your disgust with W, the way you try to recruit others to your point of view is shockingly indistinguishable from the persuasive methodology deployed by a no-money-down-real-estate infomercial.

You are so blind to the reality of what is going on that for you, a "W free" world would be a peaceful utopian society - bin Laden working side-by-side with Rush Limbaugh building Habitat for Humanity houses in Decatur, GA.

Put the doobie down and sober up. bin Ladan wants your self-rightous ass as dead as he wants mine regardless of who is president.

Its not about "W", its about America. W wasn't president during the hostage crisis in Iran - Carter was. W wasn't president during any of the terrorist attacks against the US from 1970 through 2000. That's right, tw, the terrorists actually did attack us before the dimwit W took office. Carter couldn't stop it. Reagan couldn't stop it. Bush Sr. couldn't stop it. Clinton couldn't stop it. And yes, Bush Jr. can't stop it.

The terrorists won't stop until the US is finished off.

But don't let me discourage you from voting for whomever you wish in 2008. But since you've managed to blame W for every terrorist attack dating back to the early 70s, I'm sure you will have little difficulty blaming W for every attack from Jan 15th 2008 to Jan 15th, 2525.

It is really painful for me to read your posts and see such a capable intellect so easily forsake his potential for honest analyis to further such blatently transparent mouthpeice propoganda. Keep spewing, though. It emboldens an army of lesser intellects who can't put a nose ring in fast enough.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Beestie

85% of all hairs removed from one's ass are .37 inches long. It is apparent to any independent-minded reader of your one-sided drivel that you are so disinterested in the truth that you will omit any salient fact that controverts your wafer-thin conclusions.

Hi there ditto head. Clearly you want to say something nice about a mental midget president. So where are your facts? ... Oh. You post a personal insult. That proves you are as intelligent as the president who did not know what countries are adjacent to Israel.

Beestie. If you thought for yourself, then you would have posted facts in defense of the mental midget president. You did not because, well let's see if we can find any. Otherwise, you would post Rush Limbaugh type insults - accusations without facts.

Meanwhile, where are all those domestic terrorist attacks before George Jr demoted the Counterterrorism Security Group and had it removed from the White House? Why would George Jr demote the organization that responds to terrorism AND even force this nation's #1 anti-terrrorist investigator out of government? Just more facts about George Jr competency - posted without personal insult. Beestie - the only reason you post insults is that you cannot defend the mental midget president.

Well at least you did change the name before you posted. My name is not Hilary.

Blind is one who supports a president when he lies about the Oslo accords, weapons of mass destruction, the reasons for intentionally distorted intelligence, why even our allies will not support us, "Mission Accomplished", stem cell research, Chiristian values, free trade, fiscal responsiblity, Social Security, corporate welfare to the drug industry, corporate welfare to the steel manufacturers, corporate welfare to special interests such as Halliburton, promoting energy consumption rather than innovation, perverting space science for a personal political agenda, underming American relations with virtually every nation in the world, imposing Christian extremist values even unto aid to Africa (they cannot even have condoms to protect from Aids), doing absolutely nothing to protect America during 11 September, promoting government financial support to religous organizations, endorsing and advocating torture, $8billiion to the airlines with no strings attached, ending international treaties that promoted a safer and healthier world, advocating a termination of the nuclear test ban treaty, openly promoting assistance to India's nuclear program in direct contradiction of the Nuclear Proliferation Treaty, letting First Energy operate a nuclear reactor with a potential Three Mile Island problem AND a hole in its six inch containment vessel in exchange for a $450,000 campaign fund raiser, not even reading memos from his own Treasury Secretary, spending $billions on an anti-missile defense system that does not work to defend against an enemy that does not exist (Don Quixote syndome), destroying a multinational program that would have brought N Korea back into the world as a responsible citizen, sitting on his ass while people were dying and while the USS Lincoln sat for five days in Hong Kong doing nothing, outrightly lying about aluminum tubes when even the American manufacture of that equipment demonstrated six times over why those tubes could never be used for WMDs, advocating new nuclear weapons even as bunker busters and other purposes, letting the USS Bataan side outside New Orleans doing nothing as people were suffering and dying only four blocks away from where that ship could have been docked, almost getting into a shooting war with China over a silly spy plane, permitting the Israelis to use American weapons to attack Palestinian civilians (no other president permitted that - and Reagan was the most adament about that), building a military back up to Cold War type expenditures in a world devoid of any such enemy, more $billions for a useless ISS that does no science while eating (destroying) the 10% of NASAs budget that actually does science, filling FEMA with political hacks who then perverted and undermined the organization that was fixed in 1990s, perverting science, declaring Global Warming as non-existant, then admitting it is happening but refuse to do anything (the ostrich mentality), building a Roman Empire across southeastern Asia only to promote military crusades called preemption against enemies that do not exist, stifling the prosecution of so many criminal corporate executives until Congress finally had to step in, .... Wiretapping whenever he wants only for the greater glory of George Jr.

Still waiting for Beestie to show us something that says this president works for the American people. Let's see. Insult, insult, insult ... no ... not one facts posted. it is hard to defend someone who will end up in history rated somewhere below Richard Nixon.

You see, Beestie, my every post cites facts and supporting evidence. Maybe next time I should cite your emotions as a fact? After all, it is the only fact you have in support of a mental midget president.

Yes I am insulting you because you posted insults without a single fact. You like the president? Then post a fact that says why. You could not so you did not. Because this president has become - logically undeniably - that bad. You post insults at me because deep down you cannot admit I am right. But again I posted reasons that support my claims.


One last fact. George Jr started with grudging support from me. I saw someone without promise, but OK. He could be worse. Back then, if you remember, I noted how in Texas he worked more with Democrats. I suggested he may indeed be a compationate conservative more in the model of his father. George Jr earns my comments that are provided with facts. And only in this past year - total contempt. Even The Economist magazine called his administration incompetant. And that was a full month before Katrina.

But again, I digress by adding more facts to the fire called incompetent George Jr. Beestie - an honest American would have posted some facts with your Rush Limbaugh diatribe. Look above. Facts. Plenty of facts.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Put the doobie down and sober up. bin Ladan wants your self-rightous ass as dead as he wants mine regardless of who is president.

If the president was honest, bin Laden's ass would be sitting before a court of law on trial for crimes against humanity. Instead he runs free because the president lied.

[Perry Winkle]

I'm glad I no longer argue with people who can't figure out that:


"The cat in the hat"


is not the same as "The cat in a hat"...

[Happy Monkey]

That's not "the cat in a hat". That's "a cat in a hat"!

[Perry Winkle]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

That's not "the cat in a hat". That's "a cat in a hat"!

Yeah, I know. I was just trying to use tbe tw example from earlier.

[Beestie]

There's very little point in debating you, tw. As I pointed out already, you take a position and then ignore anything that doesn't substantiate it.

Not unlike W.

[Troubleshooter]

Has everyone forgotten about the Echelon Program?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Beestie

There's very little point in debating you, tw. As I pointed out already, you take a position and then ignore anything that doesn't substantiate it.

You never tried to debate. Why? You don't like what you hear but cannot dispute those facts? Apparently. If you know something, then you can also say why - the supporting facts. Why can Beestie not provide facts? I maintain that Beestie has no supporting facts - only has unsubstantiated opinion - that even justified the 'Pearl Harboring' of Iraq.

Meanwhile, Beestie, if you had noticed, George Jr only got from me as much criticism as Clinton. However using only facts, my post on George Jr have become more callous. That only based upon what the mental midget does. Any president who does not even read his own memos? How can Beestie have any respect for such as president? He cannot if he is being honest with himself.

But prove me wrong. Show me. Show me where terrorists are waiting in line to kill us all. Widespread domestic terrorism exists in hype and fear promoted by George Jr and Rush Limbaugh (who even maintains today that we have no right or expectation of privacy). But again, Beestie, show us where these dangers exist. I maintain you cannot which is why you only posted insult. Show me logical thought rather than another Limbaugh type insult. Rather than post insults, why not post facts? Because you have none. I maintain that is where most of George Jr's support comes from - those who have opinions without logical thought. I put up reasons for what I believe. Where are yours?

[richlevy]

From here.

<table style="direction: ltr;" border="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr><td>Bush Welcomes Patriot Act Extension</td></tr> <tr> <td valign="top"> By Scott Stearns
Washington
22 December 2005
</td> <td align="left" valign="top">
</td> </tr> </tbody> </table>
President Bush is welcoming the temporary extension of anti-terrorism laws that were first passed following the 2001 attacks in New York and Washington.

President Bush says 2005 was a good year for the American people. He says there has been strong progress toward a freer, more peaceful world and a more prosperous U.S. economy.

Mr. Bush welcomed Senate action to lower government spending and temporarily extend anti-terrorism laws known as the Patriot Act. "It appears to me that the Congress understands that we've got to keep the Patriot Act in place. We are still under threat. There is a still an enemy that wants to harm us, and they understand that the Patriot Act is an important tool for those of us here in the executive branch to use to protect our fellow citizens.

I think what the president meant to say was 'a good year for the American people with a net worth over a million dollars'.

White House Spokesman Scott McClellan this past week said President Bush would not accept a temporary extension of the Patriot Act, and threatened to veto a massive defense spending bill unless the laws were fully reauthorized.

But with Senate Democrats refusing to yield on concerns about protecting civil liberties, Republican congressional leaders and the White House accepted the temporay (sic) extension.

The president said one of his biggest priorities for 2006 will be winning a full reauthorization of the Patriot Act as well as continuing to help those affected by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

So, was this a flip-flop? It appears that Congress, in a semi-bipartisan move, called his bluff.

This is almost as much backpedaling as Rick Santorum is demonstrating on Intelligent Design.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by tw

If the president was honest, bin Laden's ass would be sitting before a court of law on trial for crimes against humanity. Instead he runs free because the president lied.

Except he doesn't run free, because he's dead.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Except he doesn't run free, because he's dead.

He must have died from his health problems as well since Al Potata isn't playing the martyr card. IOW God killed him.

[Undertoad]

TS got it right with Echelon. Well played sir

Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove, Officials Report

Only the NSA could operate such a wiretapping operation, technologically...

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

TS got it right with Echelon. Well played sir

Spy Agency Mined Vast Data Trove, Officials Report

Only the NSA could operate such a wiretapping operation, technologically...

I guess the issue that comes out of call patterns is 'degrees of separation'. If you call your local store to order flowers and the owner of that store gave money to Hamas, does that make you eligible for a wiretap?

Added with data mining, it could get even more complicated. The system might have said that you were not a 'person of interest' until you bought or rented a copy of 'Munich', which put you over the threshold.

All of this might not even really matter except that they have now mixed in criminal with anti-terrorist. This means that if they use this extraordinary power and find that you have broken a mundane law like drug possession or tax evasion, they can use the information gathered without court approval against you in criminal court. It might even work out that you can be charged in criminal court and not be able to see the evidence against you since it was gathered in secret, although I'm pretty sure that this is clearly a Constitutional violation that the adminstration has not gotten around - yet.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by me

Don't get played like a fiddle into being anti-WoT... that's what Rove wants.

Instapundit points to two links that make this case. First, Ann Althouse points out that the most politically shrewd D player has avoided the issue entirely:

Hillary Clinton. Has she said anything about the current domestic surveillance controversy? I think she had the good sense to see how this was going to play out and to leave her record clear of comments that would come back to haunt her.

Ace political analyst Mickey Kaus always understands this:

One reason the warrantless eavesdropping controversy may help, rather than hurt, Bush in the polls has more to do with the character of his administration than popular support for eavesdropping. In particular, Bush's tendency to hide behind a carapace of formal, not-completely-apposite justifications (e.g. "we must recognize Iraq as the central front in our war on terror") leads voters to ask what is really going on behind the facade. The Katrina botch suggested not much--maybe Bush, as the left-wing caricatures always suggested, really was out to lunch, playing computer golf in the Oval Office while various Michael Brownian cronies held meetings to plan their wardrobes. That's why, if the Bushies have really had the energy to secretly do all sorts of illegal spying against terrorists, it's almost reassuring. At least they've been on the case, doing their job as they see it. The more thorough and secret the eavesdropping, the more reassuring on this score.

The biggest limiting factor in Presidential, or any public power at all, is not the law. The biggest limiting factor is the politics involved.