Anti-Semites? Who, Us?

Radar · 01-16-2005, 11:42 AM

Anti-Semites? Who, Us?
by Steven Plaut
September 23, 2003

Say what? Anti-Semites? Who, us anti-Zionists? Us? We have nothing against Jews as such. We just hate Zionism and Zionists. We think Israel does not have a right to exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Heavens to Mergatroyd. Marx Forbid. We are humanists. Progressives. Peace lovers.

Anti-Semitism is the hatred of Jews. Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism and Israeli policies. The two have nothing to do with one another. Venus and Mars. Night and day. Trust us.

Sure, we think the only country on the earth that must be annihilated is Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

Sure, we think that the only children on earth whose being blown up is okay if it serves a good cause are Jewish children. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

Sure, we think that if Palestinians have legitimate grievances this entitles them to mass murder Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

Naturally, we think that the only people on earth who should never be allowed to exercise the right of self-defense are the Jews. Jews should only resolve the aggression against them through capitulation, never through self-defense. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We only denounce racist apartheid in the one country in the Middle East that is not a racist apartheid country. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We refuse to acknowledge the Jews as a people, and think they are only a religion. We do not have an answer to how people who do not practice the Jewish religion can still be regarded as Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think that all peoples have the right to self-determination, except Jews, and including even the make-pretend Palestinian “people”. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We hate it when people blame the victims, except of course when people blame the Jews for the jihads and terrorist campaigns against them. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think the only country in the Middle East that is a fascist anti-democratic one is the one that has free elections. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We demand that the only country in the Middle East with free speech, free press or free courts be destroyed. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We oppose military aggression, except when it is directed at Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We really understand suicide bombers who murder bus loads of Jewish children and we insist that their demands be met in full. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think the only conflict on earth that must be solved through dismembering one of the parties to that conflict is the one involving Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We do not think that Jews have any human rights that need to be respected, and especially not the right to ride a bus without being murdered. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

There are Jewish, leftist anti-Zionists and we consider this proof that anti-Zionists could not possibly be anti-Semitic; not even the ones who cheer when Jews are mass murdered. These are the only Jews we think need be acknowledged or respected. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We do not think murder proves how righteous and just the cause of the murderer is, except when it comes to murderers of Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We do not think the Jews are entitled to their own state and must submit to being a minority in a Rwanda-style “bi-national state”, although no other state on earth, including the 22 Arab countries, should be similarly expected to be deprived of its sovereignty. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We think that Israel’s having a Jewish majority and a star on its flag makes it a racist apartheid state. We do not think any other country having an ethnic-religious majority or having crosses or crescents or “Allah Akbar” on its flag is racist or needs dismemberment. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We condemn the “mistreatment” of women in the only country of the Middle East in which they are not mistreated. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We condemn the “mistreatment” of minorities in the only country in the Middle East in which minorities are not brutally suppressed and mass murdered. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We demand equal citizen rights, which is why the only country in the Middle East in need of extermination is the only one in which such rights exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

We have no trouble with the fact that there is no freedom of religion in any Arab countries. But we are mad as hell at Israel for violating religious freedom, and never mind that we are never quite sure where or when it does so. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

So how can you possibly say we are anti-Semites? We are simply anti-Zionists. We seek peace and justice, that’s all. And surely that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such.

jaguar · 01-16-2005, 12:28 PM

Irrational? Who, Us?
by R A vingnutter
September 63, 2003

Say what? Irrational? Who, us apologists? We have nothing against human rights as such, just as long as they're not applied to those filthy towelheads. That does not mean we have anything against them as such, we just think they should all be shot for questioning the right of Israel to execute the most systematic persecution by a 'western' state since the second world war. We are progressives. We also like to eat shit, isn't it fun making straw men?

We love Arabs, just as long as they don't dare question anything Israel does. Sure, we have no problem with them being stripped of their land, their homes destroyed and lives being taken in simple eye-for-an-eye retaliation raids because of the actions of a minority but we have nothing against Arabs. Trust us.

We get off on these raids, blood and guts all the way. Whether it be a RPG toting fatah member or a kid peeking out the window, who cares! Wacking an ageing, disabled religious leader leaving morning prayers with a hellfire missle really got our rocks off like nothing else.

Sure, we think that every Jew who dies justifies the destruction of an entire township but that does not mean we are in any way biased.

We think that the contents of a 2000 year old book justifies well, practically anything Israel wants to do really but it does not me we're against Palestinians having human rights as such.

We, naturally think the filthy camel fuckers should be a bombed into oblivion and frankly, this is entirely justified by the Israeli invasion of Egypt in '67. Arabs should only have policies preached to them by hypocritical western states and certainly shouldn't question the actions of such states in their region. Even if their sovereignty is regularly violated by the only regional holder of WMDs.

We always denounce the racist apartheid in one country to justify it in another. This does not mean we are irrational or illogical. It certainly doesn't imply we use double standards when really, we have no other leg to stand on.

So how can you possibly say we are Irrational? We are simply apologists. We seek peace and justice for those we like, that’s all. And surely that does not mean we have anything against Arab scum as such.

Radar · 01-16-2005, 12:36 PM

Not one square inch of land has ever been stolen by Israel. Not even the land Israel won in 1967 when they were attacked by Arab nations. Israel doesn't practice apartheid and claims they do are untenable.

I'd recommend you edit your post and remove the name of Steven Plaut as the man who wrote the bold-faced lies and baseless arguments you posted, or you might find yourself in court.

Beestie · 01-16-2005, 12:44 PM

jaguar · 01-16-2005, 12:59 PM

Radar, heard of parody? While I'm sure a nut from your end of the political spectrum would be among the first to consider legal action when his views are questioned if he can even work out which legal jurisdiction he wants to try that under, he's welcome. He may want to consider the content of his own rants first, I'm sure Le Pen would have an issue with being called the head of the Neo nazi Party.

However, it isn't fair to use someone's name, so I've modified that. The point is Radar, if one wants to put words into the mouth of their opposition is isn't hard, nor is it clever. My version is no more accurate than yours, that's the point.

Radar · 01-16-2005, 01:15 PM

Actually your version is far more inaccurate than mine. Claiming your anti-Zionist but not anti-Jew is like saying, "The people of Spain should not go after the people who bombed the trains because they would be violating the rights of the terrorists to blow up Spanish people. They should allow it to happen and not retaliate. The Spanish people in Spain murder those who plant bombs on train tracks and that is wrong. In fact the entire nation of Spain should be destroyed.....But I don't have anything against Spanish people."

The fact is Israel treats non-Jews better than any Arab nation on earth treats non-Muslims. Non-Jews can live, work, vote, and hold office (including women) in Israel and are not harassed or discriminated against because of their religion. There isn't one other nation in the middle-east that can claim the same thing.

The post I made of Mr. Plaut's article was very accurate and describes the hypocricy of the anti-Zionist cause.

jaguar · 01-16-2005, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Actually your version is far more inaccurate than mine.

Devil is in the detail, thankyou for admitting that your friend's rant in inaccurate. I didn't even try to write an accurate piece. I was merely pointing out (I think it went a little over your head) that putting words in your percieved opposition's mouth makes it mighty easy to defeat them. It doesn't however make you anymore right. I'm not going to debate the content of either piece with you, my time is worth a lot more than that. I couldn't however let this kind of shit be posted without a reply. Where'd you drag it up from anyway? It's 2003 for crying out loud! Do you just spend your days browsing for material that fits your tiny little world view or something?

Radar · 01-16-2005, 01:30 PM

I didn't say anything about HIS verson, I said mine. His is wholly accurate and truthful. What I posted is truthful. It's a great article, by a far more intelligent person than you. But then again, most people fit into that catagory including me.

Griff · 01-16-2005, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

I'm going to the kitchen for more, take yours with garlic?

Carbonated_Brains · 01-16-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

It's a great article, by a far more intelligent person than you. But then again, most people fit into that catagory including me.

Five yard loss for using the "I'm smarter than you" argument, further five yards for any future comments claiming jaguar is "a poopy-pants" or "a silly-britches."

No need to point out the obvious inherent stupidity of having a "factual" argument about an enormously one-sided and simplistic view of world events, because you both know that, right?

Radar · 01-16-2005, 03:25 PM

Come on man, you've got to admit he's a poopy pants. That's clear from his posts. I will admit to occasionally being a silly britches, but I was young and I needed the money.

OnyxCougar · 01-16-2005, 03:47 PM

When Radar gets frustrated, he resorts to name calling, usually of the "I'm smarter than you and don't need to listen to this, so I'm putting you on ignore, lalalalalala" variety.

tw · 01-16-2005, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

When Radar gets frustrated, he resorts to name calling, usually of the "I'm smarter than you and don't need to listen to this, so I'm putting you on ignore, lalalalalala" variety.

And what is that little statement under your name? An insult not based upon facts. What does you glass house look like?

elSicomoro · 01-16-2005, 04:02 PM

Shut up, windbag. Go play in traffic or something.

Radar · 01-16-2005, 04:27 PM

Quote:

When Radar gets frustrated, he resorts to name calling, usually of the "I'm smarter than you and don't need to listen to this, so I'm putting you on ignore, lalalalalala" variety.

Notice how it's out of line for me to make a remark that I'm more intelligent than another poster (and in this case it's actually true), but it's perfectly ok for them to make a similar statement such as...

Quote:

(I think it went a little over your head)

Ironic isn't it?

Quote:

Shut up, windbag. Go play in traffic or something.

I wouldn't take that if I were you OnyxCougar. Although if I were you I'd probably kill myself.

01-16-2005, 11:42 AM	#1
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Anti-Semites? Who, Us? Anti-Semites? Who, Us? by Steven Plaut September 23, 2003 Say what? Anti-Semites? Who, us anti-Zionists? Us? We have nothing against Jews as such. We just hate Zionism and Zionists. We think Israel does not have a right to exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Heavens to Mergatroyd. Marx Forbid. We are humanists. Progressives. Peace lovers. Anti-Semitism is the hatred of Jews. Anti-Zionism is opposition to Zionism and Israeli policies. The two have nothing to do with one another. Venus and Mars. Night and day. Trust us. Sure, we think the only country on the earth that must be annihilated is Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Sure, we think that the only children on earth whose being blown up is okay if it serves a good cause are Jewish children. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Sure, we think that if Palestinians have legitimate grievances this entitles them to mass murder Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. Naturally, we think that the only people on earth who should never be allowed to exercise the right of self-defense are the Jews. Jews should only resolve the aggression against them through capitulation, never through self-defense. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We only denounce racist apartheid in the one country in the Middle East that is not a racist apartheid country. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We refuse to acknowledge the Jews as a people, and think they are only a religion. We do not have an answer to how people who do not practice the Jewish religion can still be regarded as Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We think that all peoples have the right to self-determination, except Jews, and including even the make-pretend Palestinian “people”. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We hate it when people blame the victims, except of course when people blame the Jews for the jihads and terrorist campaigns against them. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We think the only country in the Middle East that is a fascist anti-democratic one is the one that has free elections. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We demand that the only country in the Middle East with free speech, free press or free courts be destroyed. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We oppose military aggression, except when it is directed at Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We really understand suicide bombers who murder bus loads of Jewish children and we insist that their demands be met in full. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We think the only conflict on earth that must be solved through dismembering one of the parties to that conflict is the one involving Israel. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We do not think that Jews have any human rights that need to be respected, and especially not the right to ride a bus without being murdered. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. There are Jewish, leftist anti-Zionists and we consider this proof that anti-Zionists could not possibly be anti-Semitic; not even the ones who cheer when Jews are mass murdered. These are the only Jews we think need be acknowledged or respected. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We do not think murder proves how righteous and just the cause of the murderer is, except when it comes to murderers of Jews. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We do not think the Jews are entitled to their own state and must submit to being a minority in a Rwanda-style “bi-national state”, although no other state on earth, including the 22 Arab countries, should be similarly expected to be deprived of its sovereignty. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We think that Israel’s having a Jewish majority and a star on its flag makes it a racist apartheid state. We do not think any other country having an ethnic-religious majority or having crosses or crescents or “Allah Akbar” on its flag is racist or needs dismemberment. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We condemn the “mistreatment” of women in the only country of the Middle East in which they are not mistreated. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We condemn the “mistreatment” of minorities in the only country in the Middle East in which minorities are not brutally suppressed and mass murdered. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We demand equal citizen rights, which is why the only country in the Middle East in need of extermination is the only one in which such rights exist. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. We have no trouble with the fact that there is no freedom of religion in any Arab countries. But we are mad as hell at Israel for violating religious freedom, and never mind that we are never quite sure where or when it does so. But that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. So how can you possibly say we are anti-Semites? We are simply anti-Zionists. We seek peace and justice, that’s all. And surely that does not mean we have anything against Jews as such. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

01-16-2005, 12:28 PM	#2
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Irrational? Who, Us? by R A vingnutter September 63, 2003 Say what? Irrational? Who, us apologists? We have nothing against human rights as such, just as long as they're not applied to those filthy towelheads. That does not mean we have anything against them as such, we just think they should all be shot for questioning the right of Israel to execute the most systematic persecution by a 'western' state since the second world war. We are progressives. We also like to eat shit, isn't it fun making straw men? We love Arabs, just as long as they don't dare question anything Israel does. Sure, we have no problem with them being stripped of their land, their homes destroyed and lives being taken in simple eye-for-an-eye retaliation raids because of the actions of a minority but we have nothing against Arabs. Trust us. We get off on these raids, blood and guts all the way. Whether it be a RPG toting fatah member or a kid peeking out the window, who cares! Wacking an ageing, disabled religious leader leaving morning prayers with a hellfire missle really got our rocks off like nothing else. Sure, we think that every Jew who dies justifies the destruction of an entire township but that does not mean we are in any way biased. We think that the contents of a 2000 year old book justifies well, practically anything Israel wants to do really but it does not me we're against Palestinians having human rights as such. We, naturally think the filthy camel fuckers should be a bombed into oblivion and frankly, this is entirely justified by the Israeli invasion of Egypt in '67. Arabs should only have policies preached to them by hypocritical western states and certainly shouldn't question the actions of such states in their region. Even if their sovereignty is regularly violated by the only regional holder of WMDs. We always denounce the racist apartheid in one country to justify it in another. This does not mean we are irrational or illogical. It certainly doesn't imply we use double standards when really, we have no other leg to stand on. So how can you possibly say we are Irrational? We are simply apologists. We seek peace and justice for those we like, that’s all. And surely that does not mean we have anything against Arab scum as such. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 01-16-2005 at 01:17 PM.

01-16-2005, 12:36 PM	#3
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Not one square inch of land has ever been stolen by Israel. Not even the land Israel won in 1967 when they were attacked by Arab nations. Israel doesn't practice apartheid and claims they do are untenable. I'd recommend you edit your post and remove the name of Steven Plaut as the man who wrote the bold-faced lies and baseless arguments you posted, or you might find yourself in court. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

01-16-2005, 12:44 PM	#4
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	__________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

01-16-2005, 12:59 PM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Radar, heard of parody? While I'm sure a nut from your end of the political spectrum would be among the first to consider legal action when his views are questioned if he can even work out which legal jurisdiction he wants to try that under, he's welcome. He may want to consider the content of his own rants first, I'm sure Le Pen would have an issue with being called the head of the Neo nazi Party. However, it isn't fair to use someone's name, so I've modified that. The point is Radar, if one wants to put words into the mouth of their opposition is isn't hard, nor is it clever. My version is no more accurate than yours, that's the point. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 01-16-2005 at 01:06 PM.

01-16-2005, 01:15 PM	#6
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Actually your version is far more inaccurate than mine. Claiming your anti-Zionist but not anti-Jew is like saying, "The people of Spain should not go after the people who bombed the trains because they would be violating the rights of the terrorists to blow up Spanish people. They should allow it to happen and not retaliate. The Spanish people in Spain murder those who plant bombs on train tracks and that is wrong. In fact the entire nation of Spain should be destroyed.....But I don't have anything against Spanish people." The fact is Israel treats non-Jews better than any Arab nation on earth treats non-Muslims. Non-Jews can live, work, vote, and hold office (including women) in Israel and are not harassed or discriminated against because of their religion. There isn't one other nation in the middle-east that can claim the same thing. The post I made of Mr. Plaut's article was very accurate and describes the hypocricy of the anti-Zionist cause. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

01-16-2005, 01:30 PM	#8
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	I didn't say anything about HIS verson, I said mine. His is wholly accurate and truthful. What I posted is truthful. It's a great article, by a far more intelligent person than you. But then again, most people fit into that catagory including me. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

01-16-2005, 03:25 PM	#11
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	Come on man, you've got to admit he's a poopy pants. That's clear from his posts. I will admit to occasionally being a silly britches, but I was young and I needed the money. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

01-16-2005, 03:47 PM	#12
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	When Radar gets frustrated, he resorts to name calling, usually of the "I'm smarter than you and don't need to listen to this, so I'm putting you on ignore, lalalalalala" variety. __________________ Impotentes defendere libertatem non possunt. "Repetition does not transform a lie into a truth." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

01-16-2005, 04:02 PM	#14
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Shut up, windbag. Go play in traffic or something.

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