Spells

I know that we have some pagans on this board, but I don't know if you guys are in the habit of casting spells or not (I really don't know much about Wicca or any other pagan type belief). Anyhow, this question is directed to anyone who happens to feel like discussing it.

So has anyone ever cast a spell on someone or attempted to cast one? Did you actively wish someone harm when you cast it? Or was it more like a prayer that they just get what they deserved, whatever that might turn out to be? Does anyone believe that an individual has the ability to influence the cosmos by casting a spell? What about the karmic repercussions on the spell caster? My philosophy has always been that what we send out usually comes back to us sooner or later in one form or another.

Personally, I don't believe in spells, but last night I was talking to a man who has a degree in physics and he told me that he has met people who are actually able to cast very nasty spells on other folks. He also said it always seem to catch up with the spell caster, ultimately. I was surprised that such a rational person could believe in such an irrational thing as magic. He started to explain it in terms of string theory and I got lost.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Elspode]

There's no all-encompassing answer for this question, but I'll describe things from my own point of view:

1) First off, I don't cast spells *on* people. I protect myself. I protect my family. I ask for the Universe to see that people learn the lessons they need to learn. The practices of non-Wiccan witches almost certainly differ from my own.

2) A spell can be a prayer, yes. It can be that simple. However, the classical view of a prayer is that you offer it up to some other entity/deity and ask them to "make it so, #1". In my universe, I am effecting change through the power of the energy of my consciousness and my intent. If you can find it, watch the film "What the $@*!& Do We Know? (usually referred to as "What the Bleep Do We Know"). While not the perfect vehicle for the notion of magic as manifestation of quantum mechanics, it is at least a good thought-provoking presentation. I also usually recommend "The Holographic Universe" when discussing this topic.

3) What goes around does indeed come around. This is precisely why I do not cast spells on people unless there is no other choice, and they are a threat to me or my family...and even then, there's almost always a way to make it indirect. Nevertheless, there's a price to pay somewhere along the line for what one does, and one needs to be prepared to pay the piper when he plays one's tune.

I'm guessing that there is a reason you are asking this?

As a matter of fact, yeah. I just so happened to have the Tristan and Iseult Cd in my car stereo (great CD, everyone, support your local musician!) I'm a regular as part of the audience in the local music scene here, and got to talking to the physicist who is a guitar player/songwriter with a strong inclination toward Celtic music. I ran into him last night and said "You should hear this great CD I just got from a friend on the Internet!" So we walk out to my car and I turn on the CD player and it starts up at that incantation piece. My friend is very taken by it and we listen to the entire song before sauntering back in to the open mike we'd both been at.

He's going through a nasty divorce and I have my issues with the ax murderer, so we get to talking about these things and anger and etc., etc.

I said to him that it seemed to me that it might be a harmless way to release some anger by just going off by yourself somewhere and putting a sort of spell on the person who had harmed you by wishing for them to get what they gave - no more and no less. I said that since I didn't really believe that I had any special magic powers and that I was only asking that the person get whatever was karmicly their just due - be it wonderful or awful - I saw no problem in such an act.

That's when my friend warned me about black magic and casting evil spells and how it always came back and got a person in the end as proved by string theory. Naturally, my curiosity really became aroused then, hence my question.

[Elspode]

You most certainly can deal with the ax murderer...to protect yourself from being harmed by him any further.

You don't *need* to do anything to him out of revenge. He'll get his eventually, because his acts are out of direct intent on his part, and therefore subject to cosmic retribution.

If you would like to be more specific on what your spellcasting needs are, PM me and let me know what's going on, and the Mrs and I will devise some thing for you to work with for your protection.

[wolf]

The consensus is that if you do negative magick (hexing, spells willfully intended to cause harm to another person) it comes back at you threefold. (This is the "threefold law".)

Now, something on the order of a spell to keep someone from hurting you, or a spell for Justice (which may not come to fruition in quite the way you want it to), or protections, that kind of thing is usually okay.

[Elspode]

As a Wiccan, I adhere to the Threefold Law, the Wiccan Rede ("And it harm none, do as ye will shall be the whole of the law", and several other permutations) and my own conscience. However, there are witches who don't hold to this, and there are other magickal traditions/practices where one can pretty much go at it, consequences be damned.

I don't recommend this type of work, but it exists. It really boils down to this: If you are willing to pay the price, then do whatever you want. I can think of one time in my magickal life so far where I did something negative, because I could find no other solution. It worked, and yes, I paid the price. It hurt, but it solved the problem my son was having, and that was more important to me.

[itzBoo]

My dad had seen 4 guys lifting up another man（sitting on a chair) by putting their index fingers below the man's wrists, and under his thighs. How'd this work? one of the 4 guys would start mumbling about "something", then he'd say" lift". this is quite amazing and i just want to know what religion practice would this belong to?

[wolf]

Stage magicians.

I take it you've never been to a slumber party? (Light as a feather, stiff as a board, light as a feather, stiff as a board.)

[glatt]

Years back, I saw the rest of Grateful Dead lift up Jerry on Late Night With David Letterman. Jerry was sitting in the guest chair, and they all did the one finger lifting trick on him.

[Elspode]

We did this as kids, too. I have no idea how it works...but it does. I've never participated in any sort of ritual that revolved around it, though. Hmmm....

[Griff]

[hev'nly]And just like that Chairaistarianism in brought into the world.[/choirs]

[Elspode]

Well, it certainly would be a great way to be seated at the right hand of God...

[Happy Monkey]

The real trick is getting them to stay suspended when the fingers are removed.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by wolf

Stage magicians.

I take it you've never been to a slumber party? (Light as a feather, stiff as a board, light as a feather, stiff as a board.)

I can remember slumber parties where I was light as a feather and stiff as a board.

[SmartAZ]

I'm a christian.

According to my scriptures, some very amazing things are possible. None of them involve any sort of spells, just a command or action. Jesus stopped a storm with a command, Elisha parted a stream by swatting the water with a cloth, a possessed man picked apart his iron chains with his fingers, etc. According to my biblical training these things are done by believing, but I was never trained enough to know how to do any myself.

One example of believing happened when I was walking through a black neighborhood in Atlanta and a black man challenged my right to be there. "You only go through here if we ALLOW you!" he said. I believed I had a right to be there, and I believed he was only expressing frustration, not outrage. So I replied to him, "Thank you. I appreciate your hospitality." The fight was over, and he even complimented my good manners before we parted. Maybe you think that was not a very spiritual example. All I can say is that before my biblical training I would have been terrified, and I would have had no idea how to handle the encounter.

Still, I have seen a few examples that were amazing in spite of their relative insignificance. I once ended a cat's fit by touching it with my hand. I didn't hear any command to do that, I just felt that as a christian I should try to comfort the cat. I have seen a group command rain clouds to go away so they could listen to a concert in comfort. I have seen storms dissipate because someone rebuked them. I have seen blind people healed. Two of them.

Most of the time the law of believing involves things that are obviously possible but only if somebody knows how to perform them. In young people that is called "upbringing" and is fairly easy to demonstrate. A man who is "lucky with the girls" almost always had a close relationship with his mother, and a man who didn't have such a relationship has difficulty finding a girl friend. A man who happens to be a good salesman usually had a father with the same skill. You will know it when you meet such a man because you will have a strong desire to buy his stuff even if you don't need it. (I once met a sandpaper salesman and the only reason I didn't buy anything is that he only sold it in 1,000 lb lots!)

Here is the law of believing:
1. Whatever you want must be available.
2. You must know how to get it. (That usually involves a price, and it has to be paid.)
3. You have to know what to do with it when you get it.
4. You must have needs and wants parallel. (The mayor of NO who let his buses get flooded because he wanted nicer Greyhounds to be sent did not have his wants in line with his needs.)
5. Go get it!

Why do we so seldom see this demonstrated? For one thing, most people never think of the process as a list of principles. Some only think of the first and last items (Decide what you want, then go get it!) Some people lose out on the final step because they are afraid they don't deserve what they want, or they are afraid somebody will block their efforts, or they are afraid it won't be worth the effort it takes. Fear always blocks believing. That goes back to "upbringing" again: some people are raised to live in fear, and that's why they never have anything even though they qualify in all other respects.

There is nothing magic about believing, although the results often seem magical. Believing is a natural ability, taught to you (well or poorly) by your parents and whoever else influenced your development. Now that you are aware that there is such a thing, you can watch for your own examples and develop your own abilities.