Remembrance

Dagney · 09-11-2003, 01:00 PM

How do you feel about the level of "Remembrance" activities for the victims of 9/11/01?

Personally, I feel that we're not doing enough to remember those who were lost that day.

Dagney

Torrere · 09-11-2003, 01:38 PM

I'm not sure how much 9/11 Remembrance activities I think should have taken place, but I didn't see m^H^H any.

Griff · 09-11-2003, 02:44 PM

We had a moment of silence at the time of each event at school today, it felt right. Hillary is being an idiot right now talking about air quality at ground zero. Sean Hannity is being an idiot using 911 to silence dissent. Politics are back to normal, I guess. It seems like the folks most likely to bring up 911 are those who want to gain from it.

happyhshoe · 09-11-2003, 04:09 PM

We should never be anything less than reverent about those who lost their lives. If we don't remember them, aren't we being contradictory? Doesn't everyone want folks to think well of them after they're gone? I do. Every time I fly my flag (every Farkin' day since 9.11.01), I look at it at least once, and my heart twings a little bit. I hope we NEVER forget. When those bagpipes started this morning, I was every bit as sad as when it happened, as when I saw those many funerals. Some damn brave folks died that day, even if they were not in uniform. God bless their souls, and my prayers are with their family members. Can anyone really tell me those little children's reading of the names did not chill them? If you can, I really don't believe you.
God bless America

xoxoxoBruce · 09-11-2003, 04:49 PM

What makes the 3,000 people that died in the 9-11-01 terrorist attacks more important than the thousands of other people who were/are murdered by criminals, drunk drivers, ex-lovers, etc.
Is it more horrendous, more despicable, more tragic?
I find the most chilling thing about 9-11-01 is the changes wrought on the U.S. and the world. The violence it forshadowed.

happyhshoe · 09-11-2003, 04:52 PM

I think it is the sheer number. All at one time.
Much like the Holocaust, only generally speaking, all 2972 or so died in a couple of hours. Horrible.

Not to dismiss your point. And certainly dead is dead. And murder is murder, but for me, it is the scale.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-11-2003, 05:03 PM

OK Happy, what makes them heros instead of victims?

happyhshoe · 09-11-2003, 05:05 PM

I think I said brave. However, I do regard PD FD EMT and Servicemen types as heroes. Because they do what I did not ask them to do, on my behalf every single day. Yes, they are victims.
But to me they are heroes.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-11-2003, 05:21 PM

I agree that the PD, FD, EMT victims can certainly be classed as heros. The rest of the people in the WTC and on the planes are victims, lets roll or not.
That's why I could never understand why we paid them, or rather their families, millions of dollars while the poor schmuck that get run over by a drunk driver, the same day, gets squat.
And now their sueing the airlines, NYC and Boeing for more.

happyhshoe · 09-11-2003, 05:26 PM

No room to argue there, really. Except I am partial to the
Todd Beamer - Let's Roll thing.
I am one who says let's have tort reform.
How's about this?
NO case brought to court is worth more than $100,00.00 PERIOD.
If the judge finds your claim to be incredulous, such as the prisoner now suing because the prison has spiders... Yerrrrout.
No lawyer may take more than 10% of the settlement.
I don't care if your mommy was killed by a falling streetlight, or whatever, but it should never be worth more than $100 large.
That might clear up the courts, stop many foolish lawsuits, and
put some of the shine back on the Justice System which of late has been much maligned.
How's by you?

xoxoxoBruce · 09-11-2003, 05:34 PM

Sounds good in theory. But, Running up $100k in medical bills is very easy. Are you talking over and above medical expenses or flat rate?

happyhshoe · 09-11-2003, 05:37 PM

I'd love to see it flat rate. Because when we were kids, our mommies didn't sue because we scraped our knee out on the sidewalk in front of the Rexall store. Even though it was their sidewalk.

You are correct, medical bills can run quickly, but SOMETIMES there are accidents, SOMETIMES people make mistakes for which they needn't and oughtn't be sued.

I know, rather Utopian, but I think it might just work.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-11-2003, 05:57 PM

But if I fall on your sidewalk, I'm a clutz. By sueing you I shift the blame to you therefore I'm not a clutz. So in order to save face I have to sue you.

Seriously though, I'm a firm believer in personal responsibility and natural selection. If you cut off your head with a chain saw it was because you were too stupid to live. And hopefully you did it before you reproduced.

arz · 09-11-2003, 06:19 PM

Except that a lid and as proposed a very small lid on claims would mean that for many large institutions it would be cheaper to behave badly and pay out than to behave well. The whole idea of the tort system is to make bad behavior very very expensive, thus encouraging good behavior.

$100 000 per incident to Ford or Chevron or GE is nothing.

Nothing at all.

elSicomoro · 09-12-2003, 03:06 AM

I would say that events yesterday were just right. There was plenty of remembrance in NYC, Washington, and Shanksville from what I heard...and pretty much all across the country and world. And there was plenty of media coverage. I personally listened to NPR all day, whom I thought handled the day very well.

(Hey Griff, you know Anne Garrels has a book out now about her time in Baghdad, right? It came out either last week or this week...it's called "Naked in Baghdad." I'm gonna see if the library has a copy of it this weekend.)

View Poll Results: How do you feel about the level of "Remembrance" activities for the victims of 9/11?
Too Much	6	37.50%
Just Right	7	43.75%
Too Little	2	12.50%
I don't care	1	6.25%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

09-11-2003, 01:00 PM	#1
Dagney The Prodigal Brat Returneth Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: North Cackalacky Posts: 1,107	Remembrance How do you feel about the level of "Remembrance" activities for the victims of 9/11/01? Personally, I feel that we're not doing enough to remember those who were lost that day. Dagney __________________ The Constitution gives every American the right to make a total fool out of himself. But that doesn't mean you need to.

09-11-2003, 04:49 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	What makes the 3,000 people that died in the 9-11-01 terrorist attacks more important than the thousands of other people who were/are murdered by criminals, drunk drivers, ex-lovers, etc. Is it more horrendous, more despicable, more tragic? I find the most chilling thing about 9-11-01 is the changes wrought on the U.S. and the world. The violence it forshadowed. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-11-2003, 05:03 PM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	OK Happy, what makes them heros instead of victims? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-11-2003, 05:21 PM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I agree that the PD, FD, EMT victims can certainly be classed as heros. The rest of the people in the WTC and on the planes are victims, lets roll or not. That's why I could never understand why we paid them, or rather their families, millions of dollars while the poor schmuck that get run over by a drunk driver, the same day, gets squat. And now their sueing the airlines, NYC and Boeing for more. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-11-2003, 01:38 PM	#2
Torrere a real smartass Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 1,121	I'm not sure how much 9/11 Remembrance activities I think should have taken place, but I didn't see m^H^H any.

09-11-2003, 02:44 PM	#3
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	We had a moment of silence at the time of each event at school today, it felt right. Hillary is being an idiot right now talking about air quality at ground zero. Sean Hannity is being an idiot using 911 to silence dissent. Politics are back to normal, I guess. It seems like the folks most likely to bring up 911 are those who want to gain from it.

09-11-2003, 04:09 PM	#4
happyhshoe Sibling of the Commonweal Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 16	We should never be anything less than reverent about those who lost their lives. If we don't remember them, aren't we being contradictory? Doesn't everyone want folks to think well of them after they're gone? I do. Every time I fly my flag (every Farkin' day since 9.11.01), I look at it at least once, and my heart twings a little bit. I hope we NEVER forget. When those bagpipes started this morning, I was every bit as sad as when it happened, as when I saw those many funerals. Some damn brave folks died that day, even if they were not in uniform. God bless their souls, and my prayers are with their family members. Can anyone really tell me those little children's reading of the names did not chill them? If you can, I really don't believe you. God bless America

09-11-2003, 04:52 PM	#6
happyhshoe Sibling of the Commonweal Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 16	I think it is the sheer number. All at one time. Much like the Holocaust, only generally speaking, all 2972 or so died in a couple of hours. Horrible. Not to dismiss your point. And certainly dead is dead. And murder is murder, but for me, it is the scale.

09-11-2003, 05:05 PM	#8
happyhshoe Sibling of the Commonweal Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 16	I think I said brave. However, I do regard PD FD EMT and Servicemen types as heroes. Because they do what I did not ask them to do, on my behalf every single day. Yes, they are victims. But to me they are heroes.

09-11-2003, 05:26 PM	#10
happyhshoe Sibling of the Commonweal Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 16	No room to argue there, really. Except I am partial to the Todd Beamer - Let's Roll thing. I am one who says let's have tort reform. How's about this? NO case brought to court is worth more than $100,00.00 PERIOD. If the judge finds your claim to be incredulous, such as the prisoner now suing because the prison has spiders... Yerrrrout. No lawyer may take more than 10% of the settlement. I don't care if your mommy was killed by a falling streetlight, or whatever, but it should never be worth more than $100 large. That might clear up the courts, stop many foolish lawsuits, and put some of the shine back on the Justice System which of late has been much maligned. How's by you?

09-11-2003, 05:34 PM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Sounds good in theory. But, Running up $100k in medical bills is very easy. Are you talking over and above medical expenses or flat rate? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-11-2003, 05:37 PM	#12
happyhshoe Sibling of the Commonweal Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Albuquerque, NM, USA Posts: 16	I'd love to see it flat rate. Because when we were kids, our mommies didn't sue because we scraped our knee out on the sidewalk in front of the Rexall store. Even though it was their sidewalk. You are correct, medical bills can run quickly, but SOMETIMES there are accidents, SOMETIMES people make mistakes for which they needn't and oughtn't be sued. I know, rather Utopian, but I think it might just work.

09-11-2003, 05:57 PM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	But if I fall on your sidewalk, I'm a clutz. By sueing you I shift the blame to you therefore I'm not a clutz. So in order to save face I have to sue you. Seriously though, I'm a firm believer in personal responsibility and natural selection. If you cut off your head with a chain saw it was because you were too stupid to live. And hopefully you did it before you reproduced. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-11-2003, 06:19 PM	#14
arz Hand-of-Kindness Extender Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: So Cal Posts: 137	Except that a lid and as proposed a very small lid on claims would mean that for many large institutions it would be cheaper to behave badly and pay out than to behave well. The whole idea of the tort system is to make bad behavior very very expensive, thus encouraging good behavior. $100 000 per incident to Ford or Chevron or GE is nothing. Nothing at all.

09-12-2003, 03:06 AM	#15
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	I would say that events yesterday were just right. There was plenty of remembrance in NYC, Washington, and Shanksville from what I heard...and pretty much all across the country and world. And there was plenty of media coverage. I personally listened to NPR all day, whom I thought handled the day very well. (Hey Griff, you know Anne Garrels has a book out now about her time in Baghdad, right? It came out either last week or this week...it's called "Naked in Baghdad." I'm gonna see if the library has a copy of it this weekend.)

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