So the short fat Latino dude ...

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I'll take a wild stab in the dark and say someone on Fox News said it?

I heard it on one of those wacko extremists talk radio shows. It may have been on broadcast on the shortwave bands. Don't remember. But I do remember what it was. Extremists telling their brainwashed brethren how to think and what to know.

I used to listen to early 1960s Radio Moscow. Fox News today is similar. So your guess is based in good statistical probability.

I lived the 60s. Adak claims and denials sound very much like closet racists of that era.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

... just don't wear a hoodie. ...

hoo .............. die?

Trayvon Martin is standing his ground, he's just doing it horizontally six feet under. The worms are standing their ground too, they think it's Thanksgiving because they got a turkey!

[Lamplighter]

[richlevy]

Definitely lame .

I won't pretend Trayvon was a saint. My son certainly wasn't at his age. But nothing he did earned him the death penalty.

He's dead because an armed cop wannabe ignored advice and stalked him. What actually happened after that is open to question because only person walked away. I'm sure some people now take away the lesson from this case if that it's just the two of you, instead of wounding, shoot to kill and bang your head on the sidewalk a few times until the cops get there.

If there's a turkey in the story it's the pudgy sad loser playing T.J. Hooker.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by richlevy

... He's dead because an armed cop wannabe ignored advice and stalked him. ...

He's dead because he was too stupid to live. He could have lived to fight another day ... AND WON. He chose not to. Bet he won't make that mistake again! How easily you advocate that kid having unnecessarily thrown his life away. Makes people go - Hmmmm?

Originally Posted by richlevy

... If there's a turkey in the story it's the pudgy sad loser playing T.J. Hooker.

Better a live turkey than a dead poster child.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by tw

I heard it on one of those wacko extremists talk radio shows. It may have been on broadcast on the shortwave bands. Don't remember. But I do remember what it was. Extremists telling their brainwashed brethren how to think and what to know.

I used to listen to early 1960s Radio Moscow. Fox News today is similar. So your guess is based in good statistical probability.

I lived the 60s. Adak claims and denials sound very much like closet racists of that era.

Right after the incident, it was a friend of Trayvon's, who was saying that Trayvon went to the store, and made it to her house, and was "sitting on the porch".

Here is the video of it, and the media that found it again, plays it slowly so you can catch it word for word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVirVLp47oY

So Martin clearly made it to his friend's home, or the friend's explanation to Trayvon's father, is a lie.

And you can stuff your racist theories. I was raised for a couple years as a child, by a black woman, who was very kind to me. Didn't grow up with this "hate races other than your own", type of attitude.

[regular.joe]

The kid got shot. I probobly would have been shot too, being stalked by some guy through the neighborhood.

[DanaC]

Pretty damn sure half the lads I know would have been shot. How many 17 year old lads wouldn't have a problem with being stalked and menaced?

Reverse the roles and everybody would be talking about how brave he was to confront his stalker, and how tragic that such bravery (or bravado - kid was 17 after all) cost him his life.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by regular.joe

The kid got shot. I probobly would have been shot too, being stalked by some guy through the neighborhood.

My job is not to die for my country; but, to give the enemy the maximum opportunity to die for his.

Superior tactical thinking is to apply that concept to any confrontation in conjunction with the concept in my reply to Dana below.

Originally Posted by DanaC

Pretty damn sure half the lads I know would have been shot. How many 17 year old lads wouldn't have a problem with being stalked and menaced?

Reverse the roles and everybody would be talking about how brave he was to confront his stalker, and how tragic that such bravery (or bravado - kid was 17 after all) cost him his life.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

It seems that half the lads you know had parents who failed to teach them not to be too stupid to live in that regard.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by sexobon

My job is not to die for my country; but, to give the enemy the maximum opportunity to die for his.

Superior tactical thinking is to apply that concept to any confrontation in conjunction with the concept in my reply to Dana below.



Discretion is the better part of valor.

It seems that half the lads you know had parents who failed to teach them not to be too stupid to live in that regard.

Right. Because 17 year olds are well known for their life experience and ability to foresee the consequences of their actions. And young lads are of course also well-known for having no bravado or pride.

He wasn't a soldier. He wasn't trained to fight another day. He was a kid who got followed and harassed by a grown man as he was innocently walking back from the shop with his sweets.


You seriously believe that this child brought his death upon himself? That the blame lies with him? That he was 'too stupid to live'?


I am disgusted by this attitude.


Discretion may be the better part of valor, but that's a lesson to be learned in life. You are an adult and therefore understand that lesson.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I am disgusted by this attitude.

An attitude that extremists promote to encourage their supporters. Same extremists also said we want America to fail so that Obama will not be reelected. That 'blame the victim' attitude, inspired by Limbaugh and other extremists, was obvious and predictable. 'Blame the victim' accusations are posted by the usual suspects.

One even posts lies that Martin was in his girlfriend's house when he said he was going to get that guy. Extremist such as Limbaugh remain popular and rich because they preach such lies to inspire hate. Hate inspires their disciples. Their attitude and resulting 'blame Martin' posts were predictable.

[Undertoad]

Everybody on both sides has a narrative that they start with and MUST follow

- Most people decided on the correct narrative without having many facts. They put the story into their picture of the world so that it confirms their views. Their views on race, Florida's "stand your ground" gun laws, how cops behave, gated communities, how black teenagers behave, how juries work, etc. The story must fit into everyone's notions of these things. Even though it didn't happen in a gated community, "stand your ground" was not really relevant to the case, standard black teen behavior has nothing to do with anything at all here, etc.

- When the facts are not consistent with someone's narrative, those facts are ignored, or even changed. People actually rewrite the information so that it fits, and use colorful, emotional language that has nothing to do with the case.

- At some point, almost everyone's information about the case is basically wrong, because everyone they listen to has rewritten the facts to fit.

- For example, in the first 3 days following the event, we heard that "A black man was killed by a white man and the cops just let him go for no reason." This narrative was pushed early and often, and it should give people pause that this opening story was factually wrong and oversimplified. Already the facts are mangled in order to maximize outrage. Many people made up their mind at that point, and everything they've heard since then has been run through their narrative filtering, their opinion left unchanged.

[Griff]

Shhhh... Reason has no place in the politics of race, guns, or news cycles.

My take: We'll never know how it really went down, so I'll place my hopes in the trial by jury. A young man (not biologically a child, minor would be a less loaded term) is dead, that is a tragedy. A wrongful conviction would also be a tragedy. Sometimes people go free who shouldn't. Too few guilty imprisoned is a far better outcome than too many wrongfully convicted.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by Griff

Sometimes people go free who shouldn't. Too few guilty imprisoned is a far better outcome than too many wrongfully convicted.

I completely agree with this.

I don't necessarily think that the guy should have been convicted of murder. Had the prosecution gone for a manslaughter charge they may have got a conviction, and that would probably have better reflected what actually happened.

What I find appalling is the notion, expressed by several people in this thread, that this kid brought about his own death. That he was 'too stupid to live'.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Had the prosecution gone for a manslaughter charge they may have got a conviction, and that would probably have better reflected what actually happened.

Manslaughter was in fact one of the charges. The jury seemed to consider it closely, but still found him innocent.