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Old 04-19-2001, 12:39 AM   #1
Dagnabit
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I keep thinking about this. There are companies that you like, and companies that you dislike. How far do yo go out of your way to do business with a company that you like?

You may dislike Exxon for hiring drunken oil tanker captains. Do you pass by the Exxon station even though it's the nearest one to you?

I like Fresh Fields, but it's not nearby. So, I go there once out of every three trips or so.

I like my car's company but I eish I LOVED my car's company.

Whaddya think?
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Old 04-23-2001, 10:09 PM   #2
elSicomoro
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dagnabit
I keep thinking about this. There are companies that you like, and companies that you dislike. How far do yo go out of your way to do business with a company that you like?
Interesting...

I like Acme because it is nearby. However, I am getting really irritated with the level of customer service displayed, so I'm thinking of switching to SuperFresh or Shop Rite. Same with Rite Aid--nearby, but poor customer service. And I already work for one of their competitors...

I hate Ford...they're evil. They're little credit card venture has put a dent in a lot of people's pockets. I hate Chrysler too...I don't know why they are still considered part of the big 3.

I don't mind Exxon...we didn't have Exxons in St. Louis when Joe Hazelwood had one too many. And I love Mobil...good gasoline. And since they're both one and the same now...

As a personal banking customer, I like First Onion. As a business customer, I don't like First Onion...they suck.

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Old 04-25-2001, 01:20 PM   #3
wst3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dagnabit
I keep thinking about this. There are companies that you like, and companies that you dislike. How far do yo go out of your way to do business with a company that you like?

Whaddya think?
hmmm... actually I do think about this from time to time, I believe strongly in voting with my wallet, though I'm not sure how really effective it is - nonetheless, it makes me feel better.

I won't buy gas from Exxon, though at this point it is moot since they merged with Mobil. It wasn't so much the accident as the arrogance afterwards that bothered me... not that the accident was a good thing.

I won't buy anything from a large national chain that I can buy from a locally owned shop. I want the local stores to survive, mostly because they generally have better customer service.

I won't do business with Staples, Guitar Center, Mars Music, or Wal-Mart because they make absolutely no effort to pay attention to their customers, at least in the stores I've visited. I sometimes wonder how they stay in business.

I like Fresh Fields a lot, but I also like Thriftway, decent products, better than average customer services, and fair prices, and they keep the store pretty darned clean (one place where Fresh Fields could improve!)

I like Volkswagon as a company because they seem to get it, they want my business, but at the same time they don't take themselves too seriously... which in the past has certainly hurt them.

I could probably come up with other examples...
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Old 04-25-2001, 04:35 PM   #4
tw
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Re: What companies do you like?

Know the facts. For example:

Exxon - generally a very environmentally responsible company having developed many of the emmission limiting systems that the automakers refused to install and limiting service station pollution long before it was required. Ironically, one Exxon division becomes so cost controlled that tanker crews were 'operating on empty'. Exxon Valdez was so understaffed that the crew was exhausted. Furthermore, when Exxon Valdez was to arrive in the US, its crew numbers were to be reduced again. This cost control mentality was contrary to Exxon's overall corporate philosophy.

However who created the world's largest oil spill? Mobil. They leaked oil into Brooklyn ground water, knew it for ten years, made no effort to halt the leaks, then tried to place all other Brooklyn oil company sites for contributing to the oil spill. The oil spill in Brooklyn's aquafier is three times the size of the Exxon Valdez (in oil quantity).

Why then does everyone blame Exxon when Mobil traditionally fought environmental protection. About 5 years ago, all PA area Mobil stations had to have recently installed tanks dug up again - because Mobil cost controled the new tank installations rather than install them correctly. Why did you not konw this?

Then there is the famous 60 Minutes Story about gas station tank leakage where a whole town was slowly poisoned by a Mobil gas station leak. Mobil denied they created the leak and tried to blame the other (Amoco?) station. Then the 60 Minutes interview of Exxon's president who said - look we know these gas tanks have degreaded prematurely and are leaking. We (Exxon) cannot find them fast enough. However the Mobil vice president said that this is not a problem and only exists in some isolated incidents. That is why all oil company gas stations spent the $30,000 to replace their oil tanks. But cost control mentality Mobil oil could not even do it correctly the first time and was caught cheating by the state of PA.

Why don't you know this story?



VW: up to five years ago some of the worst cars in the world with GM reliability. Now they have Ford reliability. But their commericals are the source of their reputation. They are not a top notch automaker - but so many make decisions using emotion rather than facts. Therefore VW has a good reputation - especially among those who use replace emotion more than logic to decide - the youngsters. VW is only excellent to those who worship what they are told in TV commmericals. VW is only an average automaker. People who know cars know that VW is far behind both Toyota and Honda.

Supermarkets: why does Redners make a profit and yet sell groceries at such lower prices. Example - 1 gallon of Tropicana Orange Juice sells at Acme for almost $5 whereas Redners sells only for $4. Cereals sell at Acme for almost $1 more per box. Where are all these Acme, Giant, Genardis, and Clemens higher prices going? And why do I get surcharges at the latter if I don't have their ID card? Why do I have to carry all their ID cards to get advertised special prices when Redners does not require this silly card?

Rite-Aid: of course you know of the massive fraud conducted by the Camp Hill PA based company?

First Union: read this weeks The Economist for a discussion of First Union - and in particular what happened in PA to Core States.

Chrysler - there has been no big three for some time now that Chrysler is part of the Daimler Benz, Chrysler, Mitsubishi consortium. Chrysler is a foreign based company.

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Old 04-25-2001, 06:09 PM   #5
wst3
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Re: Re: What companies do you like?

Quote:
Originally posted by tw
Know the facts. For example: Exxon - generally a very environmentally responsible company <big snip>
Well, their track record on environmental issues is not as bad as some, but their arrogance in the face of a highly visible accident was inecusable.
<snipped again>

Originally posted by tw
Why don't you know this story?[/quote]

A very good question! Guess Mobil has a better PR firm.
Originally posted by tw
VW: up to five years ago some of the worst cars in the world <real big snip>[/quote]

Sorry, I have to disagree with you here... I've owned six volkswagons over the last 19 years, and my experience has been excellent. Two died untimely deaths, but I walked away from both, and all but one of the others were very cheap to operate. One went 210K miles with no major repairs, and in fact had a stone not flown up and cracked the transmission case it might still be running. Another went 180K miles including several seasons of rallying at the trap and pro levels. OK, it had a couple of repairs, but they were driver inflicted. The one bad apple was an 84 Jetta that ate tires and exhaust systems, no major repairs, but the eating habits were annoying, especially since it used an oddball tire made only by (you guessed it) Pirelli.

Even more important than all that though is they are fun to drive!

<more snipping - I measure grocery stores and pharmacies on customer service first, I'll gladly pay a small surcharge for better service...

I am sorry I left good old FU off my list of companies I dislike though. As one who barely survived the Meridian / Core States merger, I was none too happy with First Union and took my business to a smaller bank, who sadly has decided that they too want to be a bigger bank, leaving me shopping once again.
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Old 04-25-2001, 08:16 PM   #6
Undertoad
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Re: Re: What companies do you like?

Quote:
Originally posted by tw
Supermarkets: why does Redners make a profit and yet sell groceries at such lower prices. Example - 1 gallon of Tropicana Orange Juice sells at Acme for almost $5 whereas Redners sells only for $4. Cereals sell at Acme for almost $1 more per box. Where are all these Acme, Giant, Genardis, and Clemens higher prices going? And why do I get surcharges at the latter if I don't have their ID card? Why do I have to carry all their ID cards to get advertised special prices when Redners does not require this silly card?
I used to work for Clemens IT department. Hell, I used to BE Clemens' IT department.

Differences in price at supermarkets can generally be traced back to a few things. One, how they operate wrt warehousing. Two, what corners they cut wrt labor.

I am shocked and appalled every time I visit a Redners. Their merchandizing, layout, produce, bakery, all is crap crap crap. The floors are dirty. The cereal aisle has cereal on the floor. The registers are the ancient NCR that were aging really fast in 1994.

The things that you can see will echo things that you can't see. That's what's frightening. How long did a pallet of milk sit on the dock on that summer day? How long ago was that ground beef ground, and how long did it sit before being packaged and labeled? Did the price change make it into the system, or are 5% of the prices different between the shelf and the register? Did someone spray insecticide onto the bakery shelves accidentally and not care? If the freezer stops freezing, how long until someone notices, and what happens to the goods that were temporarily thawed?

Clemens took over a Shop n Bag in Lansdale. They redid it before re-opening as a Clemens. Everything was replaced. They found wooden racking in the butcher department - racking that had been illegal for five years. Where were the inspectors? Nobody could say.

Surely, Redners also does the sort of mass buying and merchandising that makes these kinds of deals possible. I *suppose* I would trust the cereal boxes, although not in August and September when it's bug season. I don't know that I would trust the OJ.

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Old 04-26-2001, 01:14 AM   #7
Dagnabit
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Hey, man, you can't just judge a car by quality and reliability. Well, you CAN, but it's a measure of how much of your life has soul.

And ironically. The Japanese have quality, engineering, and... no soul. They are toasters. There are exceptions, like the speedsters (many of which are no longer made), and the Miata, and the old MR2.

European rides are sensuous. They're art. They let you feel the road. You can hear the motor, because you're supposed to; and you drive them with a clutch, because why? Because that's the way real people drive, that's why. Because you are in full control of your car, because you are an adult and competent.

If the price to pay for that is maybe one more problem per two years, and maybe one tow every 10 years, instead of every 20, that's a small price to pay.
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Old 04-26-2001, 09:05 AM   #8
tw
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Re: What companies do you like?

Quote:
Originally posted by Dagnabit
... You can hear the motor, because you're supposed to; and you drive them with a clutch, because why? Because that's the way real people drive, that's why. Because you are in full control of your car, because you are an adult and competent.
If you hear the engine, then it is a design problem. Higher perforance engines are obvious - they make less noise. That's why they have higher performance.

Those who known nothing about cars like to advertise the fact. They are most notorious in 5.0 liter Mustangs - one of the world's lowest performance cars - made obvious by the noise of the engine.
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Old 04-26-2001, 09:28 AM   #9
tw
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Re: Re: Re: What companies do you like?

Quote:
Originally posted by Tony Shepps
... The things that you can see will echo things that you can't see. That's what's frightening. How long did a pallet of milk sit on the dock on that summer day? ...
Milk is a benchmark I am very sensitive to. Too many Acme gallons of milk were bad before the expiration date. Redner's milk has remains good long after the expiration date. But then that is how responsible and empowered Redner employees appear to be.

I always seem to run out of milk and bread just the day before the big snow. Acme and Giant were completely sold out of milk the morning before. But Redners had plenty. Some days later I stumbled onto the diary area manager. He had watched the weather forecasts, saw the coming storm, and ordered a triple order of milk. That explains the comments I heard from one employee during the 'milk rush' (while standing in those long lines - every cash register was open) when he reported all milk was now moved to the shelf. They ordered in advance because at Redeners, the employees were empowered to make purchasing descisions.

Milk prematurely aging? I only seen it in stores that also sell that milk for a higher price - and did not have any milk or bread just before the big snow storm.

I don't care if they are NCRs of 1994 (which they are not) or the floor requires a broom. The food must be clean and good quality. Milk is an excellent benchmark of more empowered employees. The Acme in Lansdale quickly lost my business when the milk was spoiled the day I bought it. Another (name forgotten) when the Coke was bad. How can you sell bad Coke? All three 2 liter bottle were bad - but the store was clean.
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Old 04-27-2001, 11:01 PM   #10
elSicomoro
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This brings up one of the things that I love about this city...

In general (at least here in Torresdale and most of the Northeast), we do not have a whole helluva lot of fast food restaurants. Sure, we have a McDonald's, Taco Bell, KFC, etc. However, since moving here, I have noticed that they are definitely fewer and further between...nowhere near the numbers I've seen in the other cities in which I have lived.

And why? Because of all the local pizza joints/sandwich shops/restaurants/whatever. Sure, we may be a fat city, but we definitely eat well...and help the locals to boot.
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Old 04-28-2001, 10:57 AM   #11
alphageek31337
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Quote:
Originally posted by sycamore
Sure, we may be a fat city, but we definitely eat well...and help the locals to boot.
Well that was very italian of you, syc. Pittsburgh is the same way, too...if anything we value good food and good culture. Just as an example, my cousin gets his doctorate in some Big Name Field(tm), and moves to Georgia for a job, but every year comes home for christmas to eat pasta in my grnadmother's basement, and always leaves with a few pounds of Isaly's chipped ham (real chipped ham). He used to get Wise potato chips, too, but they've gone national.
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Old 04-28-2001, 11:48 AM   #12
elSicomoro
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[quote]Originally posted by alphageek31337
Quote:
Well that was very italian of you, syc.
Might as well do something Italian. Everyone thinks I'm Italian because of my looks, but to my immediate knowledge, I am not.
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Old 04-28-2001, 12:27 PM   #13
alphageek31337
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Quote:
Originally posted by sycamore
Everyone thinks I'm Italian because of my looks, but to my immediate knowledge, I am not.
It's as much blood as it is attitude. Italian is big families, good food, good wine, reverence, respect, love, more good food, more good wine, kinship, and subtle nuances that escape me at the moment. Italian is also using "Ey!" as a proper greeting, but for family only (though family pretty much includes anyone who hasn't pissed you off yet).
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Old 04-30-2001, 11:31 AM   #14
Dagnabit
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This all got away from my original thinking. About "What companies do you like?"

Maybe it should be "What companies do you NOT like." And what makes you not like a company.

We all associate good things and bad things with logos and icons and names, and stuff.
For instance, instinctively, when I say 'Philip Morris' you probably recoil in horror. What if I say 'Philadelphia cream cheese' or 'Jell-O' or 'Foster's Lager' or 'Breyers Ice Cream' or 'Altoids Mints' or 'Miller Genuine Draft' or 'Post Grape-Nuts' or 'Kool-Aid' or 'Sanka'.

These are all brand names under the Philip Morris umbrella.
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Old 04-30-2001, 05:54 PM   #15
russotto
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Re: Re: What companies do you like?

Quote:
Originally posted by tw
Quote:
Originally posted by Dagnabit
... You can hear the motor, because you're supposed to; and you drive them with a clutch, because why? Because that's the way real people drive, that's why. Because you are in full control of your car, because you are an adult and competent.
If you hear the engine, then it is a design problem. Higher perforance engines are obvious - they make less noise. That's why they have higher performance.

Those who known nothing about cars like to advertise the fact. They are most notorious in 5.0 liter Mustangs - one of the world's lowest performance cars - made obvious by the noise of the engine.
Engines make noise largely because they have explosions occurring inside them. Lots of other reasons too, but that's the big one. Cars where you hear the engine less are generally that way because the engine has been tuned to reduce noise at the expense of performance, or because there's more sound insulation, or both. And of course it's hard to separate engine noise from exhaust noise, so the exhaust system comes into it too.

As for the venerable 302, it's hardly low-performance. Low tech, yes, but not low performance.
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