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Old 11-15-2019, 06:34 PM   #1
Diaphone Jim
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Veterans Day Reading

Two articles that moved me this week, suggested not required reading:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/11/m...t-veteran.html

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/...m_campaign=nym
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Old 11-15-2019, 11:11 PM   #2
xoxoxoBruce
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For every B-17 or B-24 that didn't come back, meant 10 men didn't come back.
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Old 11-16-2019, 07:54 AM   #3
sexobon
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This one is very interesting:

Trump grants clemency to 2 Army officers accused of war crimes, restores rank to Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher
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Old 11-16-2019, 10:22 AM   #4
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It's a shame war doesn't come with a script. I always hoped the military courts would do the right thing even if the story given to the public wasn't the complete truth.

I suspect this move by Trump (admittedly probably because it is Trump) is a campaign move to ingratiate military families. There's no way we can know if it's the right thing.
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Old 11-17-2019, 10:31 AM   #5
sexobon
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Military personnel are split on this. I don't think it gives Trump any significant advantage. He's certainly not the first President to grant pardons; but, he's using them in a different way:

Trump’s Pardons for Servicemen Raise Fears That Laws of War Are History
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:10 PM   #6
xoxoxoBruce
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♫ Won't you come home Bill Calley, won't you come home ♪
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Old 11-17-2019, 04:19 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce View Post
...Bill Calley...
This one?
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Old 11-17-2019, 09:54 PM   #8
xoxoxoBruce
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Yup, that one.
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Old 11-18-2019, 07:15 AM   #9
Griff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sexobon View Post
Military personnel are split on this. I don't think it gives Trump any significant advantage. He's certainly not the first President to grant pardons; but, he's using them in a different way:

Trump’s Pardons for Servicemen Raise Fears That Laws of War Are History
Well, if it's chaos the voters wanted, that seems to be what we're getting.
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Old 11-24-2019, 06:29 PM   #10
sexobon
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Ha!

Trump is sticking to his guns. The Secretary of the Navy aired some heartburn, publicly and privately, with two different stories, over Trump's intervention; so, he just got fired.

Quote:
Pentagon chief asks for Navy secretary’s resignation over private proposal in Navy SEAL’s case

Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper asked for the resignation of Navy Secretary Richard V. Spencer on Sunday after losing confidence in him over his handling of the case of a Navy SEAL [Chief Petty Officer Edward Gallagher] accused of war crimes in Iraq, the Pentagon said. …

… Esper asked for Spencer’s resignation after learning that he had privately proposed to White House officials that if they did not interfere with proceedings against Gallagher, then Spencer would ensure that Gallagher was able to retire as a Navy SEAL, with his Trident insignia.

Spencer’s private proposal to the White House — which he did not share with Esper over the course of several conversations about the matter — contradicted his public position on the Gallagher case, chief Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement.

Esper said in the statement that he was “deeply troubled by this conduct.”

“Unfortunately, as a result I have determined that Secretary Spencer no longer has my confidence to continue in his position," Esper said. ...
I wonder if the Rear Admiral who is Commander of the SEALs can read the writing on the wall.
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Old 11-24-2019, 11:48 PM   #11
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Shouldn't a Rear Admiral know how to cover his ass?
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Old 11-25-2019, 12:17 AM   #12
sexobon
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He did to some extent by letting the Navy Secretary fall on his sword rather than the Rear Admiral falling on his trident. The heads of the various Special Warfare units; however, are like kings in their respective domains and it's hard for kings to bow to a president.
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Old 11-25-2019, 12:34 AM   #13
xoxoxoBruce
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Especially hard when they have a stronger fighting force.
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Old 11-25-2019, 01:25 AM   #14
sexobon
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I think this Rear Admiral's career is dead in the water. He essentially tried to undermine Trump. The Navy SEAL that Trump reinstated had submitted his retirement papers. Still, the Rear Admiral wanted to kick him out of the SEALs and even rescind his authorization to wear the SEAL qualification badge - the Trident (retirees can continue to wear their uniforms for approved occasions). The Rear Admiral was retaliating against the SEAL and thumbing his nose at Trump.

It wouldn't surprise me if Trump kicked the Admiral in the Rear and out of the SEALs. Nor would it surprise me if Trump revoked the Admiral's Trident like he's revoked security clearances for others. Trump might just do that even if the Admiral quits (retires), in protest, to make an example out of him to other kings.
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:32 AM   #15
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This all just feels so Central America to me.

Maybe it's because I drove a fair piece of Trumpistan red PA over the weekend, but I don't see us sorting this out in a couple election cycles. The whole conflict while triggered by economics really is based in culture. I'm still seeing right wing Clinton / Obama commentary in my Facebook feed and Hillary supporters seem to keep trying to pull her out from under her rock. Any chance we we could just move on?
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