SDSL for short-distance networking?

mbpark · 07-17-2003, 10:29 PM

Hello,

I'm currently doing a lot of work to get the IS systems at a summer camp that I do volunteer work on behalf of up and running.

I'd like to run SDSL using their existing copper wire, as this place is in Bartonsville (the Poconos), and is mostly woods. Obviously, you're not going to get 802.11 working in a place like this, since line of sight is impossible.

However, someone, in all of their wisdom, did lay a lot of phone wire. I read up on dry pair, and figured a few Netopia 7200's would do the trick with the large amounts of wiring already there.

Has anyone pulled this off?

BTW, the camp's URL is http://www.goldenslippercamp.org, and it is a good cause

. That, and they will be running real systems to support this operation when I am done. No more Windows 98.

Mitch

russotto · 07-21-2003, 09:23 AM

You can do SDSL over a dry pair, but you can't use CPE (customer premise equipment) like the Netopia 7200 on both ends. You either need a DSLAM on one end and CPE on the other, or a modem that's made to work on both ends.

Here's one such modem (PairGain):

http://www6.adc.com/ecom/hier?NODE=OND29287

Zyxel makes one too, the Prestige 681 (link too long to bother with)

tw · 07-28-2003, 02:13 PM

Installing your own DSL on dry pair - what the phone company fears you will learn about:
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010823.html

Cringely is also the guy who connected two WIFI hubs (802.11), separated by miles, by simply using unidirectional antennas. Such antennas has been see for about $100 - more or less depending on frequency. Same low power transimitter that works on its ineffecient stub antenna at 50 feet can be made effective for a mile by using a Yagi antenna or equivalent.

Does one side need be a DSLAM? See the above cited URL from PBS.

russotto · 07-29-2003, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tw
Does one side need be a DSLAM? See the above cited URL from PBS. [/b]

For those who can't handle the suspense: Cringley used the PairGain modems that I mentioned.

tw · 07-29-2003, 07:38 PM

Is PairGain a trademark name or a product functional name? What does and does not fall under this definition?

russotto · 07-30-2003, 09:15 AM

In this case, PairGain is just a trademark. There is a technology called pair gain, but these modems have nothing to do with it.

mbpark · 08-13-2003, 10:47 PM

Heya,

I think I'm going to need 6 of these things. One set for the CR, one for the Rosen lab, one for the camp office. We're going to run either Cable Modem or something high-speed from one of those locations and do everything over dry pair.

I'm also considering putting in a very powerful 802.11g access point at one of the buildings, for when I come up and want to get on the Internet

. This should be a good thing.

Ah well, now that I can, I'll work on it. Thanks y'all

Mitch

russotto · 08-14-2003, 12:32 PM

400 bucks a pop for the PairGain (CDW).

I couldn't find the ZyXel 681, looks like it may have been essentially obseleted by the G.SHDSL 782, which is $360 a pop at CDW. The equivalent PairGain is $470.

Unfortunately I don't think Senao (makers of 200mW 802.11b access points) has an 802.11g access point yet.

07-17-2003, 10:29 PM	#1
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	SDSL for short-distance networking? Hello, I'm currently doing a lot of work to get the IS systems at a summer camp that I do volunteer work on behalf of up and running. I'd like to run SDSL using their existing copper wire, as this place is in Bartonsville (the Poconos), and is mostly woods. Obviously, you're not going to get 802.11 working in a place like this, since line of sight is impossible. However, someone, in all of their wisdom, did lay a lot of phone wire. I read up on dry pair, and figured a few Netopia 7200's would do the trick with the large amounts of wiring already there. Has anyone pulled this off? BTW, the camp's URL is http://www.goldenslippercamp.org, and it is a good cause . That, and they will be running real systems to support this operation when I am done. No more Windows 98. Mitch

07-21-2003, 09:23 AM	#2
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	Re: SDSL for short-distance networking? You can do SDSL over a dry pair, but you can't use CPE (customer premise equipment) like the Netopia 7200 on both ends. You either need a DSLAM on one end and CPE on the other, or a modem that's made to work on both ends. Here's one such modem (PairGain): http://www6.adc.com/ecom/hier?NODE=OND29287 Zyxel makes one too, the Prestige 681 (link too long to bother with)

08-13-2003, 10:47 PM	#7
mbpark Lecturer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Carmel, Indiana Posts: 761	ok, what's the damage for the PairGains? Heya, I think I'm going to need 6 of these things. One set for the CR, one for the Rosen lab, one for the camp office. We're going to run either Cable Modem or something high-speed from one of those locations and do everything over dry pair. I'm also considering putting in a very powerful 802.11g access point at one of the buildings, for when I come up and want to get on the Internet . This should be a good thing. Ah well, now that I can, I'll work on it. Thanks y'all Mitch

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07-28-2003, 02:13 PM	#3
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Installing your own DSL on dry pair - what the phone company fears you will learn about: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20010823.html Cringely is also the guy who connected two WIFI hubs (802.11), separated by miles, by simply using unidirectional antennas. Such antennas has been see for about $100 - more or less depending on frequency. Same low power transimitter that works on its ineffecient stub antenna at 50 feet can be made effective for a mile by using a Yagi antenna or equivalent. Does one side need be a DSLAM? See the above cited URL from PBS.

07-29-2003, 07:38 PM	#5
tw Read? I only know how to write. Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 11,933	Is PairGain a trademark name or a product functional name? What does and does not fall under this definition?

07-30-2003, 09:15 AM	#6
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	In this case, PairGain is just a trademark. There is a technology called pair gain, but these modems have nothing to do with it.

08-14-2003, 12:32 PM	#8
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	400 bucks a pop for the PairGain (CDW). I couldn't find the ZyXel 681, looks like it may have been essentially obseleted by the G.SHDSL 782, which is $360 a pop at CDW. The equivalent PairGain is $470. Unfortunately I don't think Senao (makers of 200mW 802.11b access points) has an 802.11g access point yet.

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