Winning

freshnesschronic · 02-17-2011, 02:03 PM

I am not a parent nor will become a parent for years to come....but what are parents philosophy on teaching your kid about: winning.

How important is it to emphasize being the best and striving to win. I equate winning to success usually, don't think that's a bad thing to motivate me.

Are there really soccer games in America where there is no score and kids run around for 30 minutes kicking the ball? Because that reflects to absolutely nothing in real life.

glatt · 02-17-2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

Because that reflects to absolutely nothing in real life.

You do your thing, and I do my thing. Why does there have to be a winner and a loser?

You see this in traffic sometimes. When you drive, you aren't competing with anyone. You are just going from point A to point B. If someone goes faster than you, then they go faster. So what? If they are able to pull into the lane in front of you, then so what? Even if it slows you down by half a second, that doesn't mean you "lose." You're still going to get to your destination in virtually the same amount of time.

As a parent, I teach my kids to try their best. To be the best they can be, but also to be happy and enjoy life. They are both doing well, and they are both happy. If you feel like a loser whenever anyone is better than you at something, you will always feel like a loser. There are 6 billion people on the planet. You will never be #1 at anything.

Yes, there are soccer games at younger ages where there is no score recorded, but the kids have a pretty good idea who won and who lost. In those games, the goal is to have fun and to gain skills. Not to win. If one team is really pumped about winning, they actually lose, because they missed the point.

monster · 02-17-2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

Because that reflects to absolutely nothing in real life.

It reflects plenty in my life, and I like it that way. Yup, sometimes success is winning. More often, in my life, success is learning new things, acquiring new skills, loving and being loved, and having fun. My daughter's soccer team (made up of a group of friends) has lost every game this season, against mostly travel teams playing in the rec leagues for reasons unknown. But they are coming off the field smiling and teams with the highest score are coming off scowling because they let one or two in or didn't beat our girls by as much as their closest rivals did. I know which girl I'm glad I'm taking home.

Flint · 02-17-2011, 03:16 PM

Quit wasting time on the intenet and go practice your violin!

monster · 02-17-2011, 03:16 PM

ha! We quoted the same bit.

Maybe you should strive to make your life less about winning, fresh? Clearly you are questioning it in some way. What prompted the question? I have to say, in a group of people, the one who's instantly going to turn me off is the uber-competitor who makes everything a competition and must win. But then I'd proabably strike them as a feckless hippy loser.

monster · 02-17-2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Quit wasting time on the intenet and go practice your violin!

I thought tiger-mom too

Flint · 02-17-2011, 03:18 PM

The competitive types tend to broadcast their intentions as they approach, and therefore are easy to redirect right past you and into a crumpled heap of confusion and disappointment, on the ground behind you as you walk away. They can easily be tricked into gloating over "winning" when in fact you have produced exactly the outcome that you intended. Their narrow vision doesn't allow them to see the bigger picture.

The most important competition is with yourself, i.e. self-control. Among the three key factors shown to be indicators of a child's future success in life (IQ, family's socio-economic status, and self-control) only self-control can be improved with effort.

glatt · 02-17-2011, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

I thought tiger-mom too

I actually wrote tiger mom and then deleted it.

Flint · 02-17-2011, 03:34 PM

So it is true what they say, "I was just sayin' what everybody was thinkin'!"

Sundae · 02-17-2011, 03:43 PM

Talking of tigers...

The Tiger cub has a fixation on winning.
When we play one-on-one games I might fix it so that he wins, ie I react slightly slower in Animal Snap, because it takes someone his age longer to process the images on the cards. In games of chance I let things happen - he's won so far but that's just luck. In games with other children either there hasn't been a win or lose situation or he has been among the winners.

I'm steeling myself for his first real Lose. I know it's an issue because other teachers and TAs have seen it. Solemn denial first, then tears, then minor tantrum.

He also wants to be first in every queue (line).
I'm working on that.
When we do Wake Up Shake Up I get him to move to a space in the middle of the hall. Previously he was door-hanging *. He is very good-natured though, and will move as directed. Now I'm trying to break about 3 other children of the habit, including an elective mute (he will speak happily to other children/ at home but not to teachers or TAs).

Sorry - a bit OT but seemed appropriate to me.

* the children exercising nearest the door know they will be first in the queue when they line up to go back to class.

freshnesschronic · 02-17-2011, 04:27 PM

Interesting points.

But if winning isn't important, why do we keep score? Why do we become fans and root for our respective teams? Competition is human nature, that's why why we celebrate the biggest stage in the world every 4 years at the Olympics.

I still think winning is very important part of life and needs to be taught to our youth. Winning drives college and professional sports, drives being an industry leader in the corporate world, is a huge reason why America is capitalistic. Winning to win is also an aesthetic pleasure, that I and many other people possess as well.

I guess at a young age winning isn't everything, but once I grew up I realized the importance of winning or at least doing everything I could to try to win. Motivating the youth to try to win, I think that's a good thing.

Clodfobble · 02-17-2011, 04:42 PM

The difference is between winning, and accomplishing something.

Say you lost a soccer game, but you got good exercise, had fun, and picked up some pointers to improve your skills in the process--then you accomplished something. But if you played against a bunch of six-year-olds and kicked their asses without trying, then you didn't have to work out much, you didn't improve your skills, and if you had fun doing it you're a bit of a sociopath. You won, but you didn't accomplish anything.

I do understand the much-hyped fear that children today have their self-esteems coddled, and in situations where letting "everyone win" also equals not encouraging the kids to accomplish anything for fear of failing, then yes, it's a bad thing. But winning can be dangerous along those same lines, because it tells the kids they've reached their peak, there's no point in trying harder because they're already great.

Accomplishment with or without winning are both okay; winning without accomplishment is not something I ever want my kids to do.

freshnesschronic · 02-17-2011, 04:45 PM

Good point Clod, everyone wins is just stupid in my opinion. Guess that's what I'm trying to say boiling it all down.

Flint · 02-17-2011, 04:48 PM

What about giving an "E" for effort? Is that okay?

Aliantha · 02-17-2011, 04:50 PM

I think most of us would be lying if we didn't admit to liking the feeling of being a winner, but there are ways of winning that are good, and some that are bad. If striving to do your best causes you to win, then that's great, but if you're competing simply to win at all costs, then that's not so great.

I try to teach my kids to have some humility and to be greatful for the gifts they've been blessed with that allow them to excell in some areas, and to be supportive of others who are better than them at other things.

Competition is good for kids, not just for the feelings they get when they win at something, but also it teaches them how to deal with not being the best, which is a very important thing to learn because you're going to lose a lot more times than you win in life. That's how we learn and why we try harder (or hopefully we try harder rather than give up which is part of the lesson of losing).

This is just a few thoughts, but there's a lot more to how I feel about my kids winning and losing things. It's a really complex issue because kids do need to feel successful and know that there are some things they're good at and that they have a right to be happy about that, but they also need to learn to accept that there are others who are really good at different things or even the same things, and you can't always be the best, but it's good to try your best and learn to be happy knowing you've done your best.

02-17-2011, 03:16 PM	#4
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Quit wasting time on the intenet and go practice your violin! __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

02-17-2011, 03:16 PM	#5
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	ha! We quoted the same bit. Maybe you should strive to make your life less about winning, fresh? Clearly you are questioning it in some way. What prompted the question? I have to say, in a group of people, the one who's instantly going to turn me off is the uber-competitor who makes everything a competition and must win. But then I'd proabably strike them as a feckless hippy loser. __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

02-17-2011, 03:18 PM	#7
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	The competitive types tend to broadcast their intentions as they approach, and therefore are easy to redirect right past you and into a crumpled heap of confusion and disappointment, on the ground behind you as you walk away. They can easily be tricked into gloating over "winning" when in fact you have produced exactly the outcome that you intended. Their narrow vision doesn't allow them to see the bigger picture. The most important competition is with yourself, i.e. self-control. Among the three key factors shown to be indicators of a child's future success in life (IQ, family's socio-economic status, and self-control) only self-control can be improved with effort. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio** Last edited by Flint; 02-17-2011 at 03:30 PM.

02-17-2011, 03:34 PM	#9
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	So it is true what they say, "I was just sayin' what everybody was thinkin'!" __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

02-17-2011, 04:42 PM	#12
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	The difference is between winning, and accomplishing something. Say you lost a soccer game, but you got good exercise, had fun, and picked up some pointers to improve your skills in the process--then you accomplished something. But if you played against a bunch of six-year-olds and kicked their asses without trying, then you didn't have to work out much, you didn't improve your skills, and if you had fun doing it you're a bit of a sociopath. You won, but you didn't accomplish anything. I do understand the much-hyped fear that children today have their self-esteems coddled, and in situations where letting "everyone win" also equals not encouraging the kids to accomplish anything for fear of failing, then yes, it's a bad thing. But winning can be dangerous along those same lines, because it tells the kids they've reached their peak, there's no point in trying harder because they're already great. Accomplishment with or without winning are both okay; winning without accomplishment is not something I ever want my kids to do. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

02-17-2011, 02:03 PM	#1
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Winning I am not a parent nor will become a parent for years to come....but what are parents philosophy on teaching your kid about: winning. How important is it to emphasize being the best and striving to win. I equate winning to success usually, don't think that's a bad thing to motivate me. Are there really soccer games in America where there is no score and kids run around for 30 minutes kicking the ball? Because that reflects to absolutely nothing in real life.

02-17-2011, 03:43 PM	#10
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Talking of tigers... The Tiger cub has a fixation on winning. When we play one-on-one games I might fix it so that he wins, ie I react slightly slower in Animal Snap, because it takes someone his age longer to process the images on the cards. In games of chance I let things happen - he's won so far but that's just luck. In games with other children either there hasn't been a win or lose situation or he has been among the winners. I'm steeling myself for his first real Lose. I know it's an issue because other teachers and TAs have seen it. Solemn denial first, then tears, then minor tantrum. He also wants to be first in every queue (line). I'm working on that. When we do Wake Up Shake Up I get him to move to a space in the middle of the hall. Previously he was door-hanging . He is very good-natured though, and will move as directed. Now I'm trying to break about 3 other children of the habit, including an elective mute (he will speak happily to other children/ at home but not to teachers or TAs). Sorry - a bit OT but seemed appropriate to me. the children exercising nearest the door know they will be first in the queue when they line up to go back to class.

02-17-2011, 04:27 PM	#11
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Interesting points. But if winning isn't important, why do we keep score? Why do we become fans and root for our respective teams? Competition is human nature, that's why why we celebrate the biggest stage in the world every 4 years at the Olympics. I still think winning is very important part of life and needs to be taught to our youth. Winning drives college and professional sports, drives being an industry leader in the corporate world, is a huge reason why America is capitalistic. Winning to win is also an aesthetic pleasure, that I and many other people possess as well. I guess at a young age winning isn't everything, but once I grew up I realized the importance of winning or at least doing everything I could to try to win. Motivating the youth to try to win, I think that's a good thing.

02-17-2011, 04:45 PM	#13
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Good point Clod, everyone wins is just stupid in my opinion. Guess that's what I'm trying to say boiling it all down.

02-17-2011, 04:48 PM	#14
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	What about giving an "E" for effort? Is that okay? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

02-17-2011, 04:50 PM	#15
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I think most of us would be lying if we didn't admit to liking the feeling of being a winner, but there are ways of winning that are good, and some that are bad. If striving to do your best causes you to win, then that's great, but if you're competing simply to win at all costs, then that's not so great. I try to teach my kids to have some humility and to be greatful for the gifts they've been blessed with that allow them to excell in some areas, and to be supportive of others who are better than them at other things. Competition is good for kids, not just for the feelings they get when they win at something, but also it teaches them how to deal with not being the best, which is a very important thing to learn because you're going to lose a lot more times than you win in life. That's how we learn and why we try harder (or hopefully we try harder rather than give up which is part of the lesson of losing). This is just a few thoughts, but there's a lot more to how I feel about my kids winning and losing things. It's a really complex issue because kids do need to feel successful and know that there are some things they're good at and that they have a right to be happy about that, but they also need to learn to accept that there are others who are really good at different things or even the same things, and you can't always be the best, but it's good to try your best and learn to be happy knowing you've done your best. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)