Joe Paterno to resign at end of season

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Does anyone have any extra rolls of pretty wall-paper ?

Did you mean toilet paper? There should be plenty of trustees - especially Frazier - who need it.

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I've read the income to PennState from football is on the order of $72 million annually.

Penn State is one of only a few schools that earn a profit from their football program. I believe the number is less than five schools.

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I suggest a "devil's compromise"
... where no one wins and everyone loses (something).

You mean shut down the entire school for two years because management and the trustees did not do their job? So let's punish the students. After all, they also did not say anything.

Rumor has it that 85% of all problems are directly traceable to top management. In response, the trustees decided to shorten their terms from 15 years to 12 years.

A curious sidebar. As that report was being read on cable channels throughout campus, the campus cable controller decided to switch that channel to a PA access channel. Cutting off the report as Penn State students were listening.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by tw

<snip>
You mean shut down the entire school for two years because
management and the trustees did not do their job? So let's punish the students.
After all, they also did not say anything.
<snip

No, my suggestion was:

1) Penn State shuts down the football program for one or two years.
2)...
3)...

And yes, the current students and football players etc. would/should suffer.

Maybe they did not "say" anything, but everyone contributed to the overwhelming
football atmosphere at PSU, which, in turn, set the stage for these specific events.
That is, the students, and faculty, and townspeople benefited from that atmosphere.
.

[xoxoxoBruce]

So you're saying all 96,000+ students at Happy Valley and 23 satellite campuses are to blame?

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So you're saying all 96,000+ students at Happy Valley and 23 satellite campuses are to blame?

I don't know the numbers, and they don't particularly matter.
The public rage, anger, and outcry we see now will be short-lived

Killing the PSU football (or any other) program outright would just antagonize everyone.
Making believe that only 5 particular men were the only problem just antagonizes everyone too.

I'd rather see the football program shut down for a year or two,
and then come back with an improved attitude on the part of students,
staff, faculty, administration, trustees... and perhaps most importantly, the alumni.

While I do believe there are going to be civil law suits on behalf of the abused boys,
and there will be $ awards to them by the courts, and their attorneys will get part of those awards,
I don't believe the $, by itself, will go very far towards such solving problems
as the boys/men may have now.
I believe public sympathy, regret, and acceptance of responsibility by everyone else
would do more good for them and for any others we don't already know about.

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So you're saying all 96,000+ students at Happy Valley and 23 satellite campuses are to blame?

Wow. I feel so guilty. To think I was wasting time blaming the Catholic Church for protecting pedophiles. I must have been so wrong.

[Lamplighter]

So where does one draw the line ?

Who else knew throughout the university, and the city, and the state ?
Should the university or law enforcement set about ferreting them out for punishment ?
What punishment ?

Are people seriously trying to say that losing a year or two
of the football season is cruel and unusual punishment ?

Is the odds line on PSU that important ?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Who else knew throughout the university, and the city, and the state ?

Damn few. This happened ten years ago, 99% of the students weren't even there. Only a handful knew at the time. How in hell would anybody else know? Do you think the higher ups responsible were telling people? No this is 100% top management this time.

[Griff]

So how do we break the corrupting culture of Penn State football? The game is so important that sex abuse was swept under the rug. They need to realign their priorities down there. The boosters are still the same people. I say death penalty for the program like SMU got years ago. Wipe the slate clean and discuss whether to bring it back, because right now football is more important than students, academics, and the community.

[SteveDallas]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Damn few. This happened ten years ago, 99% of the students weren't even there. Only a handful knew at the time. How in hell would anybody else know? Do you think the higher ups responsible were telling people? No this is 100% top management this time.

The janitors knew. They knew, and didn't say anything for fear of their jobs. You really think none of the students (at the time I mean) in the football program knew? Was it widespread knowledge? No, but clearly more than the top management knew.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So you're saying all 96,000+ students at Happy Valley and 23 satellite campuses are to blame?

Originally Posted by tw

Wow. I feel so guilty. To think I was wasting time blaming the Catholic Church
for protecting pedophiles. I must have been so wrong.

TW, I did get a jolt and smile from your post... a sort of "Yeah, you got me" reaction.
You're completely right in your blame of the Church for protecting pedophiles.

But somehow, even hours after I read your post,
I felt that although your light sarcasm carried truth,
that there was/is a difference between the two situations.
I now think that difference is this...

With regards to the church, it was individual Bishops and Vatican
that were protecting the pedophilic members of the Clery.
In doing so, they were inflicting the evil on their local congregations...
which, in some instances were already knowing the pedophile and asking for relief.

With regards to PSU, it was the entire local community that
was supporting (and fostering) the atmospheric mania for football,
and placing their local heroes, Paterno and Sandusky, on their community's coaching pedestal.

Does that come close to describing the difference ?

[Griff]

I wonder if Paterno's priest said it was cool?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

So how do we break the corrupting culture of Penn State football? The game is so important that sex abuse was swept under the rug. They need to realign their priorities down there. The boosters are still the same people. I say death penalty for the program like SMU got years ago. Wipe the slate clean and discuss whether to bring it back, because right now football is more important than students, academics, and the community.

Why is this about Penn State football? What makes you think they weren't trying to protect the reputation of the school and their jobs?

[Griff]

The English Dept. looks clean so far.

They were protecting the rep and jobs. Thing is Penn State created the illusion that you could have Div I football and stay squeaky clean. That lie is over now so what is the next step?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

With regards to PSU, it was the entire local community that was supporting (and fostering) the atmospheric mania for football,

You are confusing other Division 1 football with Penn State. Penn State did something that most Division 1 schools would never do. Education was more important. That was Joe and his philosophy.

In Oklahoma, girls would even take long routes around dorms that housed football players. Because sexual harrassment was all but condoned by the Oklahoma coaching staff and therefore by the university administration. Major difference between the two schools.

What makes all this shocking is that Joe would even suspend major players for not maintaining their studies. Joe Paterno was something unique in Division 1 football. Academics and social responsiblity were required of his teams. That was not true in places such as the University of Miami.

Why is Joe's name on the main campus library? His reputation and team requirements. Making Penn State's graduation rates some of the highest in Division 1 football.

Whereas few in Penn State knew of the pedophilia, in the Catholic Church everyone knows the church was protecting pedophiles. Knew it for something less than 20 years. Lynn Abraham in Philadelphia did what no other district attorney in the US was doing. She subpoenaed a list of pedophiles directly from the Archdioceses records after the church denied such records existed. Ten years later, even Pennsylvania legislators refused to change pedophile laws. To make prosecution possible. Worse, the church did absolutely nothing for another ten years to address a problem that every Catholic knew existed.

Very few in Penn State knew of the pedophilia. In the last decade, only a liar would dney pedophilia was a problem everywhere in the Catholic Church.

On the same day that Sandusky was convicted, monsignor Lynn of the Philadelphia Archdioceses was also convicted of protecting pedophiles. He was the top man in charge of this issue. All Philadelphia Cardinals knew of the problem; had a pretty good idea how widely the problem existed. And did nothing. But they did ban Voices of the Faithful from church properties because they demanded reponsible action.

From that trial, we know most if not every Philadelphia bishop and Cardinal had lists of known pedophiles. And still reassigned those priests to locations where kids would be at risk.

We can suspect that Paterno had Sandusky all but removed from the program in 1999 due to what Paterno had heard in 1998. But the Catholic Church all but openly encouraged pedophile priests. Did absolutely nothing for decades involving hundreds of pedophiles modesting probably tens of thousands of kids.

One known pedophile priest was assigned to a home for teenage boys - St Gabriels. Sister Strange, also at that home, reported to the archdiocese that this priest was still things sexually unacceptable. So the church fired Sister Strange. Did Penn State fire McQueary for reporting pedophilia?

What happened in Penn State was bad. What the church did should be prosecuted as racketeering. The Church knew of hundreds or thousands of pedophiles. Protected them. And put them back in locations where those priests would be fully in contact with kids. The church is even protecting some 35 accused priests who fled from the US for prosecution of pedophilia. How many pedophiles is Penn State protecting?

The current Pope openly decided to ignore pedophilia when confronted by most of this nation's Cardinals who flew to Rome in mass to ask for action. Those that should like an honest institution?

Maybe we should banned Notre Dame, Holy Cross, and Villanova from football for two years due to a Pope that has clearly protected pedophiles. How many thousand pedophile priests have been reassigned to institutions where they would constantly be in contact with kids? Yes, not hundreds. Thousands. Proabably tens of thousands. View those numbers! Penn State has one. The church has how many thousands?

[Lamplighter]

<snip>Maybe we should banned Notre Dame, Holy Cross, and Villanova
from football for two years due to a Pope that has clearly protected pedophiles.<snip>

I won't argue and probably agree with all you've said about about
the failed responsibilities of the Church. But that last part is a non sequitur.

First, as I've posted earlier in this thread, I am feeling Parterno carries less
responsibility or fault than the administrators above him in this case.
But it seems that most pundits are saying that it was the football mania
that was the driving force at PSU, regardless of the academic esteem
that Paterno is credited with installing among his teams.

I can almost make a case that the root problem in the Vatican's actions comes
out a basic premise of the Catholic religion... confession and repenting.
So as long as a pedophile clergyman has "confessed and repented",
the church would find it necessary to adhere to "go forth and sin no more".

What I'm trying to argue is that the "football mania" was the root cause
of Sandusky getting away with his evil actions for such a long time.
But in the Catholic Church, as inexcusible as it is, the root cause
was an unintended consequence of a basic premise of their religion.

But maybe it's all a distinction without a difference...