Christianity vs. Islam

Flint · 12-15-2006, 08:46 AM

People say that one should not criticize the institution of Christianity for the actions of a few radicals, for the same reason that it is "politically incorrect" to define all of Islam as bloodthirsty Jihadists. That's a good point, but let's keep going...

People say that moderate Muslims should "speak out" more, against the actions of the radicals. Should Christians be criticized for not "speaking out" against the actions of other Christians?

How many other statements should we be adamant about applying both religions?

Griff · 12-15-2006, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Should Christians be criticized for not "speaking out" against the actions of other Christians?

I think so. If you want your religion to represent your values, you'd better fight for it.

9th Engineer · 12-15-2006, 09:58 AM

I absolutly think that christians have a responsibility to critically address the actions and statements of other christians. Every religion has the responsibility to either accept and defend the connection between the actions of (all of) its followers or to publicly throw them out.

Elspode · 12-15-2006, 10:04 AM

Christianity vs. Islam - Christianity 17, Islam 17. Looks like we're going to sudden death, folks!

Bullitt · 12-15-2006, 10:07 AM

For sure they should. Christians that don't stand up against radicals are in essence succumbing to them by doing nothing. A great example, my home town church is in the middle of disaffiliating with the PCUSA. It has been a huge struggle and we finally did it. They try to control every church and pass legislation that should be offensive to every Christian on the planet. Example: they published a piece that encourages and expects every church to use language other than Father Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit in order to "connect and identify with others' faiths and give a more worldly view of the Trinity". They provide examples such as "Mother, Child, and Womb", somehow completely forgetting that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are their names, not just made up titles that sound cool and can be replaced with others. That was basically the last straw for us. Now, PCUSA is trying to physically take over our church, kick out the pastor and the session (our church's congress of sorts) and boot out the 3/4 of the congregation that voted to disaffiliate.

Its been a painful and divisive process, and it isn't over yet, but we had no choice but to defend our faith from these other Christians who were and are attempting to control our every act of worship.

DanaC · 12-15-2006, 11:39 AM

Sounds not too dissimilar to my branch of the labour party:P

orthodoc · 12-15-2006, 11:50 AM

There is no Christian equivalent to the current Islamofascist movement to take over the world through terrorism and subject all nations to Sharia law (and hopefully bring on Armageddon). If there were, millions of Christians would not only loudly and publicly denounce the movement, but would do their best to stop it.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of the so-called moderate Muslims of the world are neither denouncing nor acting against the Islamofascist movement. Their silence is deafening. The number of Muslims who have publicly spoken against the actions of those who claim to be bringing 'pure' Islam to the world can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

When anyone - Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, Pagan, Muslim, Atheist - commits a terrorist act in the name of his/her religious beliefs, those within that religion have a duty to denounce it and do what is possible to bring the perpetrators to justice. The only religion where it doesn't happen is Islam.

DanaC · 12-15-2006, 12:01 PM

orthodoc, you must have a lot of fingers on one hand.

Sundae · 12-15-2006, 12:06 PM

Depends what you mean about "speak out". In the 70s and 80s when Protestants and Catholics were murdering eachother (and anyone else in their way) in Northern Ireland, my parents didn't raise any official protests. I don't remember our priest criticising them during his sermons each week at Mass, or the nuns at my convent school fulminating against them in the classroom.

But I was in no doubt that the Catholics I knew and associated with had no connection with those wearing balaclavas, blowing up pubs and shopping centres and killing builders and taxi drivers.

I knew Catholics of Polish, Italian, Irish and British (ie mongrel!) descent. We didn't march, write letters to the newspapers, sign petitions or make banners. We did pray for peace, and that the hatred that made countrymen kill eachother could be lifted from men's hearts.

This was at a time when money was raised "for the cause" in America.

Violence where the victims are identified by their religion is rarely actually about religion.

12-15-2006, 12:42 PM

Exactly, much more was done to raise money to keep the killing going, on both sides, in Ireland than to stop it.
However, the scale is minute compared to what is happening in the Islamic world.
Another thing, You do not see those within the community who say they want to stop the violence in the Islamic communities who know where these people hide turning them over to the authorities. There are cells, world wide, each exists in broad daylight. Most taught by radical Imans openly... who comes forth to expose them, to show the way to cleanse the Islamic community of this cancer?
They walk past and do not pick-up the phone.
Choice.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-16-2006, 10:00 AM

People have to understand that a bad "one of us", is not better than a good "one of them".

Mother Teresa did some good deeds, but she was a Roman Catholic.
Mahatma Gandhi did some good deeds, but he was an Indian.
Joesph Stalin did some bad things, but he was a Soviet.
But? But! What the hell difference does it make? It's what they did, how they acted, what they accomplished, that defines them.

If you see/hear someone doing what you feel is wrong, say so. Doesn't matter if it's "one of us" or "one of them", speak out. That goes double for someone doing wrong, while claiming to represent you. Don't let anyone use you or your name, for evil, just because they are "one of us".

12-16-2006, 03:09 PM

The difference are the Imans, there were not religious leaders telling Stalin to wipe out Jews. There was one Catholic leader that said Jesus was not a Jew, he did not say to kill them all.
The radical Imans are encouraging the violent factions of Islam and the their ranks are growing, it is organized... that is the difference and it is huge.

piercehawkeye45 · 12-21-2006, 05:51 PM

I am one to support the theory that religon will hurt a progressive society because religion usees tradition and tradition hinders progress.

One big difference between Christianity and Islam is that mainstream Christains have progessed and Christianity as a whole has become more liberalized when Islam hasn't. Christianity is 700 years older than Islam and what were Christians doing 700 years ago? The Crusades?

Give Islam a couple decades to a century and they should liberaize just as Chrsitianity has.

wolf · 12-21-2006, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Give Islam a couple decades to a century and they should liberaize just as Chrsitianity has.

Only after they have converted the whole world to Islam.

It's in their mission statement.

piercehawkeye45 · 12-21-2006, 06:43 PM

Just as much as it is Christianity's.

All the Muslim's I've met in real life were down to earth people who didn't care what religion I was. Another thing, in Islam, if you are a good person you can be accepted into heaven without regard to religion. Christianity doesn't work that way.

12-15-2006, 08:46 AM	#1
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Christianity vs. Islam People say that one should not criticize the institution of Christianity for the actions of a few radicals, for the same reason that it is "politically incorrect" to define all of Islam as bloodthirsty Jihadists. That's a good point, but let's keep going... People say that moderate Muslims should "speak out" more, against the actions of the radicals. Should Christians be criticized for not "speaking out" against the actions of other Christians? How many other statements should we be adamant about applying both religions? __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

12-15-2006, 09:58 AM	#3
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	I absolutly think that christians have a responsibility to critically address the actions and statements of other christians. Every religion has the responsibility to either accept and defend the connection between the actions of (all of) its followers or to publicly throw them out. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

12-15-2006, 10:04 AM	#4
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Christianity vs. Islam - Christianity 17, Islam 17. Looks like we're going to sudden death, folks! __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

12-15-2006, 10:07 AM	#5
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	For sure they should. Christians that don't stand up against radicals are in essence succumbing to them by doing nothing. A great example, my home town church is in the middle of disaffiliating with the PCUSA. It has been a huge struggle and we finally did it. They try to control every church and pass legislation that should be offensive to every Christian on the planet. Example: they published a piece that encourages and expects every church to use language other than Father Son and Holy Ghost/Spirit in order to "connect and identify with others' faiths and give a more worldly view of the Trinity". They provide examples such as "Mother, Child, and Womb", somehow completely forgetting that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are their names, not just made up titles that sound cool and can be replaced with others. That was basically the last straw for us. Now, PCUSA is trying to physically take over our church, kick out the pastor and the session (our church's congress of sorts) and boot out the 3/4 of the congregation that voted to disaffiliate. Its been a painful and divisive process, and it isn't over yet, but we had no choice but to defend our faith from these other Christians who were and are attempting to control our every act of worship. __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass.

12-15-2006, 11:50 AM	#7
orthodoc Not Suspicious, Merely Canadian Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 3,774	There is no Christian equivalent to the current Islamofascist movement to take over the world through terrorism and subject all nations to Sharia law (and hopefully bring on Armageddon). If there were, millions of Christians would not only loudly and publicly denounce the movement, but would do their best to stop it. Unfortunately, the vast majority of the so-called moderate Muslims of the world are neither denouncing nor acting against the Islamofascist movement. Their silence is deafening. The number of Muslims who have publicly spoken against the actions of those who claim to be bringing 'pure' Islam to the world can be counted on the fingers of one hand. When anyone - Jew, Hindu, Buddhist, Wiccan, Pagan, Muslim, Atheist - commits a terrorist act in the name of his/her religious beliefs, those within that religion have a duty to denounce it and do what is possible to bring the perpetrators to justice. The only religion where it doesn't happen is Islam. __________________ The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated. - Ghandi

12-15-2006, 11:39 AM	#6
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Sounds not too dissimilar to my branch of the labour party:P

12-15-2006, 12:01 PM	#8
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	orthodoc, you must have a lot of fingers on one hand.

12-15-2006, 12:06 PM	#9
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Depends what you mean about "speak out". In the 70s and 80s when Protestants and Catholics were murdering eachother (and anyone else in their way) in Northern Ireland, my parents didn't raise any official protests. I don't remember our priest criticising them during his sermons each week at Mass, or the nuns at my convent school fulminating against them in the classroom. But I was in no doubt that the Catholics I knew and associated with had no connection with those wearing balaclavas, blowing up pubs and shopping centres and killing builders and taxi drivers. I knew Catholics of Polish, Italian, Irish and British (ie mongrel!) descent. We didn't march, write letters to the newspapers, sign petitions or make banners. We did pray for peace, and that the hatred that made countrymen kill eachother could be lifted from men's hearts. This was at a time when money was raised "for the cause" in America. Violence where the victims are identified by their religion is rarely actually about religion. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

12-15-2006, 12:42 PM	#10
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Exactly, much more was done to raise money to keep the killing going, on both sides, in Ireland than to stop it. However, the scale is minute compared to what is happening in the Islamic world. Another thing, You do not see those within the community who say they want to stop the violence in the Islamic communities who know where these people hide turning them over to the authorities. There are cells, world wide, each exists in broad daylight. Most taught by radical Imans openly... who comes forth to expose them, to show the way to cleanse the Islamic community of this cancer? They walk past and do not pick-up the phone. Choice.

12-16-2006, 10:00 AM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	People have to understand that a bad "one of us", is not better than a good "one of them". Mother Teresa did some good deeds, but she was a Roman Catholic. Mahatma Gandhi did some good deeds, but he was an Indian. Joesph Stalin did some bad things, but he was a Soviet. But? But! What the hell difference does it make? It's what they did, how they acted, what they accomplished, that defines them. If you see/hear someone doing what you feel is wrong, say so. Doesn't matter if it's "one of us" or "one of them", speak out. That goes double for someone doing wrong, while claiming to represent you. Don't let anyone use you or your name, for evil, just because they are "one of us". __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-16-2006, 03:09 PM	#12
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	The difference are the Imans, there were not religious leaders telling Stalin to wipe out Jews. There was one Catholic leader that said Jesus was not a Jew, he did not say to kill them all. The radical Imans are encouraging the violent factions of Islam and the their ranks are growing, it is organized... that is the difference and it is huge.

12-21-2006, 05:51 PM	#13
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I am one to support the theory that religon will hurt a progressive society because religion usees tradition and tradition hinders progress. One big difference between Christianity and Islam is that mainstream Christains have progessed and Christianity as a whole has become more liberalized when Islam hasn't. Christianity is 700 years older than Islam and what were Christians doing 700 years ago? The Crusades? Give Islam a couple decades to a century and they should liberaize just as Chrsitianity has.

12-21-2006, 06:43 PM	#15
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Just as much as it is Christianity's. All the Muslim's I've met in real life were down to earth people who didn't care what religion I was. Another thing, in Islam, if you are a good person you can be accepted into heaven without regard to religion. Christianity doesn't work that way.

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