When Welfare Goes Wrong...

[monster]

28 years, no work

Why has Elizabeth never had a paid job?


When you have welfare systems you almost always get people who abuse and play the system to a professional level, and it's a balancing act, deciding if the cost of the abusers can be stomached in order to make sure those who really need help still get it. But in this case I feel the sytem -rather than being abused- is almost abusing people by enabling them to be plain and simple losers. There's no built in kick-up-the-butt, or at least there wasn't until it was too late.

But she concedes that she doesn't really know why she didn't get a job, and that there was an element of just "not getting round" to it.

She doesn't think school wanted her to stay on because she "wasn't too bright" and used to bunk off a lot.

Without any qualifications she assumed she wasn't able to follow her chosen path and join the Army. She never actually made it to the recruitment office to ask

Just plain lazy, i call it. And the daughter (who had a baby at 16) needs a Waaahbmulance:

"All my pals are looking for work as well. But it's not that easy to get a job straightaway, you've got to write out your CV and everything and then hand it in to places."

I know, I know, I don't know the full story, I haven't walked in their shoes and I shouldn't jusdge, but I am, damn it. Although I'm judging "the system" more than them. I don't think these people are living the Life of Reilly off the taxpayer. but I think they'd be a damn sight better off and happier now if the welfare system hadn't supported their lazy arses so much.

[/rant]

your thoughts?

[classicman]

Elizabeth Malcolm, 43, has never had a job. She lives in a two-bedroom council flat in Glasgow with her three children, one grandchild, two cats and a hamster.

Neither of her two working-age children have a job.

looooosers like them shouldn't get a friggin dime. I am all for helping those that need help, but NOT permanently! NFW.

[classicman]

Here is an interesting article. I just googled it and this was one of the first to come up.

[classicman]

Here is another interesting take on the subject -

The current welfare/SS/unemployment/medicare/medicaid... make up 67% of the Federal governments total spending. If you take into consideration that the Fed receives about 3.5 trillion in tax revenues a year then 2.34 trillion dollars goes into social assistance programs. (2,340,000,000,000 dollars) if only lets say that on the low end 10% of the total is fraudulent or misused then that is 234 billion dollars that is being stolen from the countries tax payers. This alone would almost cover the national deficit. If the actual fraud rate was more like 20-30%, which it probably is, then we are looking at 468 - 702 billion being stolen each year as a result. So, if we were to decrease the # of fraudulent claims by 10-15% as a country we would effectively start eliminating our overall national debt, thus increasing the value of the dollar. But in our current situation the national debt continues to increase due mostly to social assistance programs. The fat could be cut in other areas and should be but the biggest chunk of the pie will have to come from social services or our children will have some serious problems in the future.

Source(s): Wikipedia/2007 Federal budget

[wolf]

I get to see my tax dollars at "work" all too often.

There are actually people who do need that complete government support, but those folks are truly few and far between.

Even for the ones who do need welfare, I get irked when they talked about getting "paid." Paid to do what? Sit on your ass and watch stolen cable and smoke cigarettes? Paid to reproduce?

I've voiced my opinions about welfare elsewhere around here, I'm sure. One of my strongest opinions has to do with folks being completely cut off benefits if they test positive for recreational drugs or alcohol.

[Bullitt]

In my mind, it is not the government's job to babysit you and coddle you when you're down and out. The gov. is there to promote social stability, protect rights, and support public works such as roads, parks, etc.; it should not be a nanny-state like this because all they are doing is giving people a ticket out of personal responsibility. My parents came from very little (running around barefoot in the ghetto) and have worked damn hard to bring themselves up and get where they are today. People who don't do the same don't deserve jack shit. I'm sorry if you have a disability, etc. but that's life and if you don't want a huge bloated government that wastes billions of dollars, then don't ask for programs and handouts.

On the flip side, if we do continue these programs, there should be extremely strict regulations and time limits put into place. Documented, current proof of disability or illness signed off by a legit medical professional in order to receive benefits. A time limit on how long you can be supported by unemployment with no option for extension except for acceptable unforeseen documented medical circumstances, etc.

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this too, screw it, but as much as it would be an invasion of privacy, etc., I think people should have to go through a review and approval process before reproducing. People who want to adopt have to go through the same thing, why shouldn't dumbasses and drug addicts have to do the same? People who do not have the independent monetary ability to properly care for children should not be allowed to have children; it's child cruelty to allow a child to live in squalor just because a couple of morons decided they wanted a baby. We're overpopulated as it is and huge numbers of kids are cycling through foster homes waiting to be adopted. Same reasoning for why I will never purchase a dog but instead adopt one from a shelter, and encourage all who know me to do the same.

I have no pity for people who live off of the system and don't work as hard as my parents did to better their lives. I probably sound like an asshole right now but oh well, flamesuit on.

[lumberjim]

Some people should die. That's just unconscious knowledge.

[ZenGum]

Welfare dependency is a trap, agreed. And some people are just bone lazy.

I am extremely skeptical about this

If the actual fraud rate was more like 20-30%, which it probably is

.

I'd need some very robust studies before I buy that, and I'm too busy working to look for them. :p

My solution to welfare cheats? Do not provide guaranteed money. Provide guaranteed work. Same amount of money, for maybe 2 or 3 days per week dumb labouring, thus giving them time to go look for a real job or bum around at home watching daytime TV if they prefer. I don't care if it is picking up litter or digging holes and filling them up again, the point is to make it moderately unpleasant. If it is productive or in some way useful, so much the better.

Of course, it can't work for single mothers, age pensioners etc, but they're exempt, since they aren't cheating. This targets the slackers.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

My parents came from very little (running around barefoot in the ghetto)

now you see, I would support a program that bought them shoes. Just not hooker shoes, big ticket sneakers, or lazy-arse slippers

[monster]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

I'm sorry if you have a disability, etc. but that's life and if you don't want a huge bloated government that wastes billions of dollars, then don't ask for programs and handouts.

Yup, they shoulda just offed Stephen Hawking at birth... I mean, like, what did he ever do for society, stuck in that wheelchair with that Darth Vader voice thingy.......

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by monster

Yup, they shoulda just offed Stephen Hawking at birth... I mean, like, what did he ever do for society, stuck in that wheelchair with that Darth Vader voice thingy.......

Nah, I'm anti abortion unless the mother's life is in danger. I don't recall Hawking ever applying for welfare

Originally Posted by monster

now you see, I would support a program that bought them shoes. Just not hooker shoes, big ticket sneakers, or lazy-arse slippers

I would support this, but no crocs either.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

I'm sorry if you have a disability, etc. but that's life and if you don't want a huge bloated government that wastes billions of dollars, then don't ask for programs and handouts.

There are plenty of people who need help long term because of disabilities.

You don't sound very sorry. You sound more like a person that says they're sorry when what they really mean to say is, 'I don't care if you have a disability...'.

Maybe it's ok for you to say so. Personally I think people who find themselves in a bad situation through no fault of their own should be entitled to help from the society they're born into. Maybe some people do take advantage of the situation, and like Zen, I don't believe it's 20% or more, but for every one of those people who do take advantage, that's at least 4 others who're doing the right thing and trying to get back on their feet.

After the comments I've seen around this place on what some people think of charities etc, I wouldn't buy into the whole, 'there are programs to help people short term'. It'd seem to me that there are a lot of people who don't give a shit about helping anyone who's down on their luck.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

There are plenty of people who need help long term because of disabilities.

You don't sound very sorry. You sound more like a person that says they're sorry when what they really mean to say is, 'I don't care if you have a disability...'.

Maybe it's ok for you to say so. Personally I think people who find themselves in a bad situation through no fault of their own should be entitled to help from the society they're born into. Maybe some people do take advantage of the situation, and like Zen, I don't believe it's 20% or more, but for every one of those people who do take advantage, that's at least 4 others who're doing the right thing and trying to get back on their feet.

After the comments I've seen around this place on what some people think of charities etc, I wouldn't buy into the whole, 'there are programs to help people short term'. It'd seem to me that there are a lot of people who don't give a shit about helping anyone who's down on their luck.

See now I should have more clear here. What I don't approve of is the government stepping in with the broad stroke that is welfare and wasting millions of taxpayer dollars. I am very much for programs to help people back up on their feet through voluntary societies such as Habitat for Humanity, etc. I prefer smaller govt. that only directs people's lives when it absolutely has no other choice. Some people genuinely do need a hand and we should stand together as communities to help one of our own. We should help those in genuine need become self sufficient again, but leave them to their own devices after that. Welfare is giving a man a fish when we should instead be teaching him how to fish, and if he screws up from there it's not on us.

I was previously on the path to becoming a special education teacher before I took an interest in firefighting (if you can't tell I have a thing for serving the community in times of need). I most certainly do care for those who are disabled, but looking to the inefficient government is not the answer IMO. Voluntary societies are; we need a serious resurgence of them.

[Aliantha]

Well you probably need less people involved in their own life and greed and more interested in their community if you want more people to volunteer.

Personally, I think those days are over. At least the days when a large percentage of people considered it a duty or part of their lives once they retired or found themselves in a financially stable position. These days, people think about travelling and doing things for themselves when they retire etc. Not their community.

Yeah yeah I know there are still some about who fit the old mold, but nowhere near the number there used to be. I know my family has always been involved in programs like 'meals on wheels' and 'homecare' etc, and those of my aunts and uncles who volunteer are always saying how there's just not the number of people helping out that there used to be.

It's a sad reflection of society and where we're headed. Unfortunately, it's also a true one.

[DanaC]

It's also worth taking into account that of the x% fraud, a large chunk of that will be extremely minor. People claiming unemployment/disability and also doing a little cash in hand work a few times a year. I honestly don't have a problem with that kind of low level scamming of the system...a few extra ££s in the hands of some single mum who is struggling bothers me a whole heap less than the millions (billions now) that we as tax payers have given to the wealthy.