Let's talk about Israel and Palestine...

[Cyclefrance]

Incredible, absolutely incredible, the nature of some of the commentary on this topic. Some of you need to reflect a little on your thoughts before you post. OK, this is an emotive subject, but the suggestion that a people who have no passports and who are blockaded into an ever narrowing strip of land should leave or die is ludicrous. So is the idea that any form of nuclear solution is either conceivable or justifiable.

It takes a very small amount of internet searching to see what the latest Israeli incursion is doing. Wiping out tunnels? So there are tunnels under farms are there, as farms and orchards have been been decimated through Israeli bombing? The economy and fundamental infrastructure that supports nearly 2 million people herded into an ever decreasing and already small area of land is being is being systematically destroyed - homes, utilities, services, everything.

If we had to rely purely Israeli reporting to reach our conclusions I could maybe possibly understand the severity of some of the comments being made. But the web gives us the opportunity to view from many sides. Not everything that comes from another source is propaganda. We are given too many reports to draw that conclusion. Western governments commenting that the situation is 'unacceptable' do nothing to convince the people of Gaza, and obviously Hamas, that we care - certainly not when this is backed up by million dollar and ongoing military support for Israel.

No innocent person deserves to die - this should be the fundamental driver behind anything the West decides to do to help resolve a situation that it is abundantly clear the two factions directly involved cannot. Take this as your foundation and then ensure that everything else you do observes this overriding instruction.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by Cyclefrance

blockaded into an ever narrowing strip of land should leave or die is ludicrous

We can try to talk about this topic. I hope we can. But nobody has really said what you said they said so it's not a conversation yet.

Is it your understanding that this blockade is meant to keep things and people in?

Do you have a take on the blockade preventing long-range missiles from Gaza? Do you believe that happened? Would you permit that?

It takes a very small amount of internet searching to see what the latest Israeli incursion is doing. Wiping out tunnels? So there are tunnels under farms are there, as farms and orchards have been been decimated through Israeli bombing?

Too bad they don't have any greenhouses!

If we had to rely purely Israeli reporting to reach our conclusions I could maybe possibly understand the severity of some of the comments being made. But the web gives us the opportunity to view from many sides. Not everything that comes from another source is propaganda.

Oh, guess what: not everything out of Israel either. I mean unless the Times, the Guardian, the Sun and the Mail are all identical in some form in their reporting on British issues. You may safely read the Jerusalem Post from time to time without getting some form of infection. It's a major newspaper written by a sophisticated, cultured, western people who think like us. There's even debate about what to do, as Israeli opinion is not uniform.

But you're suggesting ignorance is the cause of our disagreement. What do we do when people disagree with us? #1, we think they are ignorant of the facts. #2, we think they are idiots. #3, we think they are evil.



I'm glad you are only expressing #1. If tell you that I've studied the matter in great detail and have collected a ton of facts, please do not move on to #2 where I don't have the intellectual capacity to interpret them. That's a bad time for me.

[sexobon]

Originally Posted by Cyclefrance

... No innocent person deserves to die ...