8/20/2003: Palestinian militant

Undertoad · 08-20-2003, 12:56 PM

This is Raed Abdel-Hamid Mask, 29, an Islamic cleric/preacher/imam at home in Palestine with his 3-year-old daughter and 2-year-old son. (See how desperate and hopeless he looks as a result of the occupation?)

Same dude. Typically, before a bombing, they film a video in which they explain what they're going to do. He holds a Koran in his right hand.

Here he is shown again -- you can't really see him, but parts of his flesh are embedded along with shrapnel in the victim, who just by chance is also 3 years old.

goethean · 08-20-2003, 02:14 PM

Does anyone know of a non-political website that posts interesting images on a daily basis?

Undertoad · 08-20-2003, 02:42 PM

They told me if I was true to my own voice it would be more interesting.

OnyxCougar · 08-20-2003, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by goethean
Does anyone know of a non-political website that posts interesting images on a daily basis?

Elspode · 08-20-2003, 03:06 PM

I guess www.aljazeera.com is out, huh?

goethean · 08-20-2003, 03:19 PM

No, al-jazeera should be fine. Because since I object to a website obsessed with painting Palestinians as irrational, I must be a pinko commie idiotarian Gore supporter.

Right?

Undertoad · 08-20-2003, 03:38 PM

No?

We often are completely different and have different points of view, but we can discuss those things AND other things without descending into any kind of disrespect. I hope that's part of the point of the Cellar. Aside from me posting the first message in each IotD thread, your posts are as important and valid as mine, s'ok?

Beletseri · 08-20-2003, 03:49 PM

How did Undertoad's post paint anyone as irrational? I am asking seriously. You may have taken it as irrational and maybe to some of us it is an irrational act but in the history of war, killing children isn't such a new thing at all. In fact in a war over land, genocide is sort of the point.

one earth · 08-20-2003, 03:56 PM

They are not irrational. They are victims of a profoundly ugly deception that places no value on human life, only on personal gain. This story is as old as Cain and Abel, and will probably take even longer to fully resolve.

ndetroit · 08-20-2003, 04:05 PM

IMO this site is as politcal or nonpolitical as you'd like to make it, goethean ...

if you don't like the sentiments expressed... then express your own, and argue intelligently for them...

I'm certain you'll find more than a few ppl willing to debate you.. But I'm sure that you'll find more than a few ppl willing to agree with your views..

That's kind of the point of the IoTD in some ways I guess.... You've got to have some thought-provoking stuff that causes a little bit of strife every now and then.... It can't all be naked locals lying down for art, or piggies jumping into swimming pools...

I don't really post that often, but I read every comment on every topic every day... Sometimes the things that people say piss me right off... Sometimes they make me laugh out loud... Sometimes both, I guess..

If you've got a problem with the liberal/conservative slant of the content of the site, by all means, post a counter-opinion..

... But don't request a censoring of the original content.

Elspode · 08-20-2003, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by goethean
No, al-jazeera should be fine. Because since I object to a website obsessed with painting Palestinians as irrational, I must be a pinko commie idiotarian Gore supporter.

Just out of curiosity...is suicide bombing and the associated killing of civilians rational? I read UT's post as painting a single Palestinian as being irrational, not an entire nation.

Now, if you've got a convincing argument for the rationality of suicide/murder, I'd love to hear it.

And, before anyone goes there, I don't consider the US's warlike attitudes to necessarily be entirely rational, either.

Leus · 08-20-2003, 04:17 PM

Quote:

(See how desperate and hopeless he looks as a result of the occupation?)

This is the only bit that bothered me. You can't judge the overall feelings of a person by looking at one picture. On the other hand, I don't understand how a father can commit such a despreciable act. The only explanation is "It's just the human nature", right?

goethean · 08-20-2003, 04:48 PM

Quote:

IMO this site is as politcal or nonpolitical as you'd like to make it, goethean ...

Please. Undertoad's post today is political and partisan from beginning to end.

Partisan, as in showing part of--one-half of--the conflict, deliberately looking away from the other half. Undertoad's posts do this consistently.

A comparable statement might be:

Look at the foolish and murderous Viet Cong killing the innocent American GI!

Quote:

...But don't request a censoring of the original content.

I'm calling out clear bias that has plagued Undertoad's posts for as long as I've been here. I wish he would gain some empathy and lose some smugness. I don't consider that censorship.

Quote:

That's kind of the point of the IoTD in some ways I guess.... You've got to have some thought-provoking stuff that causes a little bit of strife every now and then....

But you know, it seems like everytime Undertoad wants to provoke us, it is from a pro-war, pro-Bush, position. There have been a multitude of posts on the horribleness of Intifada. How many have been about napalmed Afghani or Iraqi civilians? An alien reading Undertoad's posts would get the impression that Palestinians are the only ones killing anyone in the world.

ndetroit · 08-20-2003, 04:50 PM

decent newsweek piece on the rationale of suicide bombing, from this weeks edition:

http://www.msnbc.com/news/953555.asp

the argument is basically that suicide bombers are not "crazy" or "religiously brainwashed" but are more a product of specific political conditions..

I guess that's obvious.. maybe.

I thought the part about what the turkish govt did about the kurds was interesting...

Elspode · 08-20-2003, 04:59 PM

Goethean said: "But you know, it seems like everytime Undertoad wants to provoke us, it is from a pro-war, pro-Bush, position. There have been a multitude of posts on the horribleness of Intifada. How many have been about napalmed Afghani or Iraqi civilians? An alien reading Undertoad's posts would get the impression that Palestinians are the only ones killing anyone in the world."

I would be more than interested in seeing the other side of the story, and I'm pretty sure many others here would be as well. I do seem to recall the posting of pics sometime back of the protester who got squished by the Israeli bulldozer, and there was a great deal of back and forth discussion from both sides of the issue, if memory serves. I don't think it would be any different if, say, you, Goethean, posted pictures and points of view which did not ding the Palenstinians.

08-20-2003, 12:56 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	8/20/2003: Palestinian militant This is Raed Abdel-Hamid Mask, 29, an Islamic cleric/preacher/imam at home in Palestine with his 3-year-old daughter and 2-year-old son. (See how desperate and hopeless he looks as a result of the occupation?) Same dude. Typically, before a bombing, they film a video in which they explain what they're going to do. He holds a Koran in his right hand. Here he is shown again -- you can't really see him, but parts of his flesh are embedded along with shrapnel in the victim, who just by chance is also 3 years old.

08-20-2003, 03:06 PM	#5
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	I guess www.aljazeera.com is out, huh? __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

08-20-2003, 04:59 PM	#15
Elspode When Do I Get Virtual Unreality? Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Raytown, Missouri Posts: 12,719	Goethean said: "But you know, it seems like everytime Undertoad wants to provoke us, it is from a pro-war, pro-Bush, position. There have been a multitude of posts on the horribleness of Intifada. How many have been about napalmed Afghani or Iraqi civilians? An alien reading Undertoad's posts would get the impression that Palestinians are the only ones killing anyone in the world." I would be more than interested in seeing the other side of the story, and I'm pretty sure many others here would be as well. I do seem to recall the posting of pics sometime back of the protester who got squished by the Israeli bulldozer, and there was a great deal of back and forth discussion from both sides of the issue, if memory serves. I don't think it would be any different if, say, you, Goethean, posted pictures and points of view which did not ding the Palenstinians. __________________ "To those of you who are wearing ties, I think my dad would appreciate it if you took them off." - Robert Moog

08-20-2003, 02:14 PM	#2
goethean ethics evolve. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 60	Does anyone know of a non-political website that posts interesting images on a daily basis?

08-20-2003, 02:42 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	They told me if I was true to my own voice it would be more interesting.

08-20-2003, 03:19 PM	#6
goethean ethics evolve. Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 60	No, al-jazeera should be fine. Because since I object to a website obsessed with painting Palestinians as irrational, I must be a pinko commie idiotarian Gore supporter. Right?

08-20-2003, 03:38 PM	#7
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	No? We often are completely different and have different points of view, but we can discuss those things AND other things without descending into any kind of disrespect. I hope that's part of the point of the Cellar. Aside from me posting the first message in each IotD thread, your posts are as important and valid as mine, s'ok?

08-20-2003, 03:49 PM	#8
Beletseri Yeah sez you Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 206	How did Undertoad's post paint anyone as irrational? I am asking seriously. You may have taken it as irrational and maybe to some of us it is an irrational act but in the history of war, killing children isn't such a new thing at all. In fact in a war over land, genocide is sort of the point.

08-20-2003, 03:56 PM	#9
one earth least significant bit Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 13	They are not irrational. They are victims of a profoundly ugly deception that places no value on human life, only on personal gain. This story is as old as Cain and Abel, and will probably take even longer to fully resolve.

08-20-2003, 04:05 PM	#10
ndetroit Master Locutor Join Date: May 2001 Location: vancouver Posts: 158	IMO this site is as politcal or nonpolitical as you'd like to make it, goethean ... if you don't like the sentiments expressed... then express your own, and argue intelligently for them... I'm certain you'll find more than a few ppl willing to debate you.. But I'm sure that you'll find more than a few ppl willing to agree with your views.. That's kind of the point of the IoTD in some ways I guess.... You've got to have some thought-provoking stuff that causes a little bit of strife every now and then.... It can't all be naked locals lying down for art, or piggies jumping into swimming pools... I don't really post that often, but I read every comment on every topic every day... Sometimes the things that people say piss me right off... Sometimes they make me laugh out loud... Sometimes both, I guess.. If you've got a problem with the liberal/conservative slant of the content of the site, by all means, post a counter-opinion.. ... But don't request a censoring of the original content.

08-20-2003, 04:50 PM	#14
ndetroit Master Locutor Join Date: May 2001 Location: vancouver Posts: 158	decent newsweek piece on the rationale of suicide bombing, from this weeks edition: http://www.msnbc.com/news/953555.asp the argument is basically that suicide bombers are not "crazy" or "religiously brainwashed" but are more a product of specific political conditions.. I guess that's obvious.. maybe. I thought the part about what the turkish govt did about the kurds was interesting...

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