Ask the Transperson

[xoxoxoBruce]

The Struggle to Change Your Gender While Keeping Your Job

Many of the 700,000 transgender people in the U.S. are forced to make careful calculations about what to say—and how to look—at work

At Bloomberg.

[Pamela]

This is a very familiar story, one I hear from most every employed (or recently UNemployed) transperson I have ever met.

I, myself, have not announced my transition at work and still present male for fer of losing my job and likely my career, as employer referrals are critical for changing jobs.

My hope is to retrain for another career path after surgery and before reentering the workforce. That way I do not have to go back to trucking and explain my new appearance to people who knew me as a male.

All of that linked article is very true. It never ceases to amaze me how many people feel entitled to the most intimate details of my life and body once my trans status is revealed or discovered. Sometimes I want to scream and carry on. Then I remind myself that Calpernia Addams covered this in a great if snarky youtube video. See post #61 for the video.

Love

Pam

[Lamplighter]

The following article is from our local (progressive) newspaper about a 5th Grade teacher at a local school.
It some ideas we may not be familiar with and the diversity among us.

theythemtheir
Portland Tribute - Caitilin Feldman - 8/18/15

Editor's note:

In this story, "they," "them" and "their" have been used as singular, gender-neutral pronouns
in regard to Leo Soell. We made this decision to stay true to Soell's gender-neutral identity.

Transgender teacher living 'authentic' life after cancer battle

Identifying along the spectrum, outside the boxes of “male” or “female,”
means that Soell also doesn’t identify with “he” or “she.”
Soell prefers the pronoun “they,” a linguistic transition they began implementing
two years ago with close friends, and last February with the world.

During this time, they also worked with doctors at Tualatin’s Legacy Meridian Park Medical Center,
who played a vital role in their gender identity transition.

“Some people might argue, ‘Why don’t you just use “he?” It’s masculine,’” Soell said.
“But ‘they’ continuously points to the fact that the language is not inclusive.”

By definition, “they” can mean a group of people or a single person of unspecified gender,
but the language has whittled away at the latter meaning.
Using “they” as a singular pronoun sets off grammar alarms in many people’s brains,
including Soell’s, when they first begin changing pronouns.
<snip>

[sexobon]

Seems rather short sighted as those pronouns don't carry over to the Romance languages as gender neutral. Not even "other" (i.e. male, female, other) works in that respect nor does "it".

Most adequately descriptive words are either too long for use as pronouns; or, lose the allusion to people.

Someone will probably have to pronoun a single syllable name that at some point was associated with nonspecific gender to be widely accepted.

Submitted for your approval is "chaz". Your next stop, the PC Zone.

During this time, chaz also worked with doctors at Tualatin’s Legacy Meridian Park Medical Center,
who played a vital role in chaz gender identity transition.

FIFC

[xoxoxoBruce]

Argument being bounced around several sites, I brought it in it's entirety.

A cis person playing a trans role in “the Danish girl” is transphobia? So what should it have been? A trans actress who has already transitioned should act as a cis man for months of filming triggering her dysphoria because of social justice? Or a trans actress who hasn’t transitioned should be outed when she’s not comfortable with that yet? Sorry but when a movie is showing a transition story, using a cis person is just logical.
Please lgbt community, keep boycotting all the attempts to bring your stories to the mainstream media because they aren’t perfect in every way… the bigots don’t even have to do any work these days.

cottonkandymisogynist:It is transphobic because
1. Trans people were not involved in the writing or casting in both
2. Trans people did audition for the films but they were passed over! To hire well known cis actors!!! Trans people were denied a role that would’ve launched a mainstream career! This is hard economic discrimination !!!!!

^^^^^^^trans people wanted to play these roles!!!!^^^^^^^ main point!


3. Not every trans person is dysphoric. Lots-LOTS- would be happy to be part of a big screen release telling trans stories (Laverne Cox!)
4. Fuck off if you’re not trans. Trans people say it’s transphobic to elevate cis actors while Trans people are denied the rare role specifically for them.

5. Cis people are making money off trans stories It’s transphobic and commodifies the suffering of minorities
6. TRANS PEOPLE ARE CONSTANTLY DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY TO TELL THEIR STORIES GREEN LIGHTING CIS PEOPLE TO TELL TRANS STORIES IS TRANSPHOBIC.

REPEAT cis people making money off of Trans people being discriminated against in the movie industry is transphobic and shitty do not support the Danish girl.

batrachoid:Yeah no. You can not support the Danish girl if you want to but Please stop telling others what to do. There’s literally nothing transphobic about it. It doesn’t promote hate for trans people. A trans person was in fact involved in the creation of the character. Trans people were passed over? Probably because they were not as good as Eddie Redmayne . Also a non dysphoric trans person? You mean a cis person? I’m not trans. Not fucking off tho. People making money by doing their jobs isn’t transphobic TYPING IN CAPS DOESN’T MAKE YOU CORRECT.

cottonkandymisogynist:
1) This is a kooky argument because it implies that trans people are entitled to the role just because they’re trans. That’s like an argument for discrimination based on gender identity. Weird. If you could prove that there was a fantastic trans actor who was passed over because the people making the movie were transphobic even though they were making a movie about it… but that seems implausible.

2) People making movies have to make movies that will sell. They’re obligated to their backers unless they are self-funded indie filmmakers. They have to consider the marketability of their stars. Trans actors are just starting to get the kind of recognition that has been long in coming, but they’re just not there yet.

3) Um, shouldn’t a trans person be able to act in any role? I mean why limit them to playing trans characters? That makes even less sense.

Cotton Kandy is right, progressive people will take every opportunity to shit all over every achievement if it doesn’t fit into their own radical view. Look, my trans friends- if this movie does well, every movie producer in Hollywood is going to be shopping around for scripts that depict trans stories, that have trans characters, that feature trans actors. If it does poorly, they’re just going to think, “Well, I guess the moviegoing public isn’t interested in this sort of thing. Don’t make any more movies like that, they’ll flop.” You should be seeing it 10 times, not boycotting it.

[Pamela]

I do not detect a question here, but I *will* comment.

I can see both sides of this argument. On one hand, films about trans people OUGHT to have trans people in them. On the other hand, we as a group tend to be FAR too sensitive and become outraged at any slight, real or imagined.

Perhaps a compromise would have been better (and more accurate). Put a cis actor in to portray the pre-transition part and a trans actor to portray the post transition part.

ETA: the actor who did play the part did in fact consult with many trans people and was welcomed warmly. Linky

[xoxoxoBruce]

Thanks, I was hoping you would explain what was going on. Since I'd seen what I copied in several places, it had to be more than just one person pissed off, or a lot of people pissed at that person for calling for a boycott.

[DanaC]

What would impress me more is a trans person playing the gender they've transitioned to without their trans status even being a thing.



Incidentally - I watched the first episode of Sense8 yesterday. I am loving the trans woman and lesbian girlfriend. They're an awesome couple.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It seems there's another battle going on. " 'Dirty money' stigma plagues the transgender adult industry."

A new project called the Trans Adult Industry Foundation (TAIF) aims to close the cycle by funneling a percentage of profits made by transgender porn companies into community groups and nonprofits that serve the immediate needs of trans people.

According to a TAIF press release, housing, call centers, emergency shelters, and advocacy as some primary areas of need, “with a specific focus on the needs of the performers in our community.”

The foundation is constructed on a simple idea: make money from trans porn, give money to trans people. However, the people launching the effort—porn star Buck Angel along with two employees of trans porn company Grooby—say their motivations are complex. It isn’t just that they want to help, it’s that they’ve tried to help before and have been turned away.

[it]

One of the most interesting discussions I've ever seen were about gender essentialism between a group of hard core "gender doesn't matter" feminists and a group of trans people at various stages (Between extreme gender dysphoria to fully transitioned).

In a way it felt like a conflict between 2nd wave to 3rd wave feminism.

One group dismissing gender as irrelevant and finding gender roles and expectations to be painful and limiting to themselves, and one group finding gender as essential to who they are, so much that it's lack of expression in their sex is emotionally painful to them.

For me it was one of those grand oppertunities where I got to see people argue over the answer for a question where I don't have my own preconceived answer I think is correct, and I'll be honest, it was a close call for me. I would say that trans have marginally won by presenting supporting evidence in neural scans that demonstrate gender symptoms in the brain.

So I ask you, trans... FtM? MtF? Should I read the OP before entering these discussions? Anyway - I ask you...

How do you view this, and in particular, how do you view the gender of cispeople who don't view their gender as part of their identity? Are they - from your perspective - in denial?

[DanaC]

The gender is purely 100% conditioning argument just doesn't hold up at all. The idea that how we express, understand and respond to gender may be very much learned and conditioned is more compelling to me.

I do not believe that girls are biologically driven to like pink dresses and wear high heeled shoes. But I do think little girls are biologically driven to want to know how to be a girl and if the answer they see around them is that girls like pink dresses and high heeled shoes then they are very likely to start wanting those things. Similarly the drive to attract a mate requires knowing what the other person might find attractive - and if everything tells you that what makes a woman attractive is that she be this or that, then that becomes the thing we aim for.

The same is true I think of many of the features of femininity and masculinity that we culturally deem natural and unassailable.

In other words, what it is to be a woman, think like a woman and express a female gender is heavily shaped by the cultural context. The same cultural context surrounds people who have a conflict between the gender they feel they are and the gender they are told they are. They were seeking out the same answers to the question of what is male and what is female - just with a less conventional focus. You can't look for messages about one gender and not see messages about the other, they are defined in opposition to each other.


I don't think gender defines, at a biological level, whether we will want to play nurse or fix a computer. Nor do I think it defines whether we are home bodies or adventurers, able to be funny, or capable of mathematical genius. But the biological drive to be our gender may be important in defining those things, along the lines of the lessons we learn about femaleness and maleness. It also, in many ways, defines who we are in relation to others and ourselves - and that is profoundly important. And, however culturally conditioned our understanding of what it means, fundamentally.. to be male or female, that context isn't easily dismissed. Aspects of it may even be desirable - socially useful.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Anytime someone feels strongly about an issue, and gathers people who agree, it becomes political. Actually any time a group of people gather for any purpose it becomes political. There will people who by virtue of their personalities are natural leaders. Others, who are power hungry, want to be in charge, and some who are so full of themselves feel they deserve to be in charge.

Look at the tea party, lots of disgruntled people who couldn't express more than one or two actual reasons, but backed anyone who slipped into the leadership void and voiced plausible complaints. Individuals I've talked to, don't agree with everything the leadership says, but feel there's no other choice.

I'm betting the leaders of any cause are saying things not everyone supporting them agrees with completely, unless the cause is so narrow it can be summed up in a slogan or two. The Women's/feminist movement certainly can't.

[Pamela]

Originally Posted by traceur

So I ask you, trans... FtM? MtF? Should I read the OP before entering these discussions? Anyway - I ask you...

How do you view this, and in particular, how do you view the gender of cispeople who don't view their gender as part of their identity? Are they - from your perspective - in denial?

I am MtF trans.

Your question is both simple and complex.
I have no idea what the fuss is about. Gender is a fundamental concept to everyone's identity and humanity. Personally, I go for the traditional gender binary, that is, male and female. I do not go for any of the "in-betweens", which upsets a lot of LGBTs I cannot honestly say that I have met anyone who holds that their gender is not part of their identity. Other than the aforementioned "tweens".

I suspect that some people just want to play "me too". There is more to the discussion in question than simply rights or identity. These views of mine have made me something of a pariah in our social circles but I believe that we are being used by some to advance a radical social agenda which seeks to deconstruct every tradition and foundation upon which the US was built.

I have not read much about this argument because I tend to avoid feminists' circles, where I and my sisters have been made to feel unwelcome, mainly by TERFs, an ultra-radical subset of feminist.

I hope I answered your question.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Should I read the OP before entering these discussions?

In the OP Pam offered to answer questions. If you haven't yet discovered, Cellar threads drift, like paper boats, when you launch a thread, you relinquish control. But tangents can be enlightening too, and Pam is tolerant.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Real Talk With Trans People.

How to be an ally.

Non-Binary or Genderqueer

NB and GQ folks, including celebs Miley Cyrus and Ruby Rose, locate their genders outside the categories of male and female. They often use either first-person plural pronouns (they, them) or less common ones (ze/zir, ne/nem). These identities are already big in adolescent and college queer scenes.

In a Sentence:
I want to attend college at a place like the University of Vermont, which lets me be genderqueer in its records and recognizes my pronouns