bills and customer service, are we being robbed?

footfootfoot · 09-12-2006, 07:08 AM

I have taken over the billpaying chores this month since SWMBO has fallen behind. Five of our bills had bogus charges on them which required phone calls by me to straighten out.

All the errors were on the parts of the various companies, and were along the lines of improperly credited accounts, or small $15-20 over charges.

I'm wondering, since I see this frequently from many different companies, if this is a new strategy on the part of the bean counters. Add $20 worth of charges to a million or so accounts, and bet that a percentage of people won't question it.

Subtract the cost of customer service to handle the complaints and voila! instant profit for doing nothing.

I remember when Kodak lost the suit brought against them by Polaroid for patent infringement.

Kodak intentionally infringed knowing that by the time the case was settled and reparations were made they'd still clear an enormous profit. This was in the mid 80's as I recall.

I read about it in a trade magazine; after the dust settled Kodak still made several hundred million dollars.

I wish I had a larger customer base, if I overcharge one of my customers, they're likely to know. If I overcharged several million customers...

Has anyone else seen weird accounting practices on their bills?

breakingnews · 09-12-2006, 07:41 AM

I have a tough time believing a company would deliberately overcharge a customer. If that's the case, it's criminal and should be prosecuted.

More often than not it is simply a mistake or a misunderstanding. It's just unfortunate that the power is all on the company's side.

While I have heard of a handful of incidents, I've never personally experienced this problem. The two or three times I have called and complained about mysterious charges, they ended up being my fault anyway.

You're right that this may be a business strategy of some sort. Err on the side of doubt and see what the customer says. If he pays, he pays. If he complains, see if the problem can be fixed. If it cannot, risk losing the customer (I have a feeling most people, despite getting really pissed off, end up not switching companies because of the switching costs involved). I'm sure whatever contract/agreement you entered into permitted such action.

And I don't think the Kodak case is relevant here.

footfootfoot · 09-12-2006, 08:02 AM

Yeah, I'm hoping it's just the kind of garden variety incompetence that comes with hiring low bid subcontractors and minimum wage employees.

I've worked in some pretty lame jobs when I was younger (think "clerks") and some of us cared because we had a certain amount of integrity, others really didn't and couldn't be bothered to do a good job or care what the results of their inaction might be.

I thought Kodak's case may be relevant only as an illustration of a company putting profit ahead of any sense of morality. I agree that the analogy isn't direct.

I just got off the phone with Verizon to straighten out a $79. charge for unreturned equipment.

They told me not to bother returning the equipmnet when they sent me a replacement modem. (glad I didn't throw it away)

They sent me a replacement modem because I wasn't getting 3Mb download speeds that they promised, they faulted the modem.

After a half dozen tech calls and over three hours of fiddling/ new modems etc. They send a tech guys out to my house.

He explained that when I subscribed they needed to send someone out and put the correct wiring in the box outside the hosue. (he did) and that the routing of the wires in our neighborhood went zig zagging all over creation, he doubted that we'd ever get 3Mb, but re routed some wires, shortened the route they travelled and we ended up getting 1.5Mb on a good day.

He was the only one who seemed to have any idea how the system worked.

Anyway, maybe it's just incompetence.

skysidhe · 09-12-2006, 08:44 AM

Yes, Last year Qwest charged me double for unregulated and regulated services for DSL.

Unregulated fees are completly legal because this administration deregulated lots of stuff so the companys can stick it to us.

Shawnee123 · 09-12-2006, 08:49 AM

This is why I dropped cable. Time Warner stuck it to me, then acted like assbutts when I contested it. So, they didn't get the original unsolicited money, and lost revenue for how ever many years I would have cable and road runner.

Sundae · 09-12-2006, 11:17 AM

I have three gas meters in my flat. One for me, one for the flat upstairs (they're in the basement) and one check meter installed before my time as there was a problem with fraudulent readings.

I have notes through my door on a regular basis saying that someone has come to read the meter and I'm not in. I call the number to reschedule, only to find that no-one has been sent out. I explain ad nauseum that there are three meters and could they please check their records via postcode and house number but it always baffles them.

They tell me not to worry, then I come home the next week to a threatening (standard) card saying that I have denied them access and if I do not reschedule they can request a warrant to enter the property.

It doesn't cost me anything - except in terms of hassle - but it does prove the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing.

xoxoxoBruce · 09-12-2006, 12:54 PM

Medical bills are routinely sent to the patient and insurance company. If they both pay, so much the better.

Clodfobble · 09-12-2006, 01:00 PM

We had a nightmare getting the electric bill sorted out right when we moved in, because of meter location problems.

The previous owner had created an enclosed porch at the back of the house, which surrounded the electric meter, blocking access to it. No problem, our city has a read-it-yourself program for people with vicious dogs, etc., where you just turn the dials on a little card to match the meter and put it out on the fence for the meter man to see. If you forget to put your card out, policy is that they way over-estimate the usage--that is, add a huge number to whatever you had last month--and then you get a very low bill the next month, when you put the real reading out like you're supposed to.

The first month we moved in, we didn't know about the card. So our first reading was one of those crazy-high estimates. Only the reading itself wasn't out-of-line with what the dials actually said. Logically, this meant the previous reading they were "adding" to was incorrectly low: i.e., the previous owner was cheating on their numbers, lying to get lower bills. However, this situation was complicated enough that it was completely over the head of every customer service rep at the phone company, especially when they were all programmed to assume I was complaining because the bill was so high, and they kept trying to explain to me how their over-estimating policy worked. I literally had to call 3 or 4 times in a row, every day for two weeks, until I had talked to every single customer service rep, and they all agreed together to forward my complaint to their boss just to get me off their backs. Fortunately he was smart enough to get it, and fixed the bill.

Clodfobble · 09-12-2006, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Medical bills are routinely sent to the patient and insurance company. If they both pay, so much the better.

I was pleasantly surprised to actually receive a refund check from a doctor's office recently, because my insurance finally decided to pay for something I'd already given up on and paid myself.

Flint · 09-12-2006, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

assbutts

Shawnee123 · 09-12-2006, 03:03 PM

romuh doog · 09-12-2006, 07:35 PM

Time Warner Cable has me personally red flagged and listed on their customer account list as hostile! Their A/P dept. wouldn't know a goose if it bit them in the arse, and when they came to get their equipment I hummed it out the front door into the road like a Medieval mace. Currently happy with DSL.

Shawnee123 · 09-13-2006, 07:52 AM

You know, doog...I've heard countless others complain about TW Cable. Can't we break them down like they did to Ma Bell? There are other options, of course, but any other cable related still uses TW's lines, still giving them profit.

Do you think they'd catch on that their PR is bad and they should change? No, they don't have to.

dar512 · 09-13-2006, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Can't we break them down like they did to Ma Bell?

Have you looked at the size of SBC lately? It'll just reform under one of the baby TW's.

Shawnee123 · 09-13-2006, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

Have you looked at the size of SBC lately? It'll just reform under one of the baby TW's.

That's true, and all we're left with is 20 phone books instead of one inclusive one!

09-12-2006, 07:08 AM	#1
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	bills and customer service, are we being robbed? I have taken over the billpaying chores this month since SWMBO has fallen behind. Five of our bills had bogus charges on them which required phone calls by me to straighten out. All the errors were on the parts of the various companies, and were along the lines of improperly credited accounts, or small $15-20 over charges. I'm wondering, since I see this frequently from many different companies, if this is a new strategy on the part of the bean counters. Add $20 worth of charges to a million or so accounts, and bet that a percentage of people won't question it. Subtract the cost of customer service to handle the complaints and voila! instant profit for doing nothing. I remember when Kodak lost the suit brought against them by Polaroid for patent infringement. Kodak intentionally infringed knowing that by the time the case was settled and reparations were made they'd still clear an enormous profit. This was in the mid 80's as I recall. I read about it in a trade magazine; after the dust settled Kodak still made several hundred million dollars. I wish I had a larger customer base, if I overcharge one of my customers, they're likely to know. If I overcharged several million customers... Has anyone else seen weird accounting practices on their bills? __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

09-12-2006, 07:41 AM	#2
breakingnews Q_Q Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: somewhere in between Posts: 995	I have a tough time believing a company would deliberately overcharge a customer. If that's the case, it's criminal and should be prosecuted. More often than not it is simply a mistake or a misunderstanding. It's just unfortunate that the power is all on the company's side. While I have heard of a handful of incidents, I've never personally experienced this problem. The two or three times I have called and complained about mysterious charges, they ended up being my fault anyway. You're right that this may be a business strategy of some sort. Err on the side of doubt and see what the customer says. If he pays, he pays. If he complains, see if the problem can be fixed. If it cannot, risk losing the customer (I have a feeling most people, despite getting really pissed off, end up not switching companies because of the switching costs involved). I'm sure whatever contract/agreement you entered into permitted such action. And I don't think the Kodak case is relevant here. __________________ Gone crazy, be back never.

09-12-2006, 08:02 AM	#3
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	Yeah, I'm hoping it's just the kind of garden variety incompetence that comes with hiring low bid subcontractors and minimum wage employees. I've worked in some pretty lame jobs when I was younger (think "clerks") and some of us cared because we had a certain amount of integrity, others really didn't and couldn't be bothered to do a good job or care what the results of their inaction might be. I thought Kodak's case may be relevant only as an illustration of a company putting profit ahead of any sense of morality. I agree that the analogy isn't direct. I just got off the phone with Verizon to straighten out a $79. charge for unreturned equipment. They told me not to bother returning the equipmnet when they sent me a replacement modem. (glad I didn't throw it away) They sent me a replacement modem because I wasn't getting 3Mb download speeds that they promised, they faulted the modem. After a half dozen tech calls and over three hours of fiddling/ new modems etc. They send a tech guys out to my house. He explained that when I subscribed they needed to send someone out and put the correct wiring in the box outside the hosue. (he did) and that the routing of the wires in our neighborhood went zig zagging all over creation, he doubted that we'd ever get 3Mb, but re routed some wires, shortened the route they travelled and we ended up getting 1.5Mb on a good day. He was the only one who seemed to have any idea how the system worked. Anyway, maybe it's just incompetence. __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

09-12-2006, 08:49 AM	#5
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	This is why I dropped cable. Time Warner stuck it to me, then acted like assbutts when I contested it. So, they didn't get the original unsolicited money, and lost revenue for how ever many years I would have cable and road runner. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

09-12-2006, 11:17 AM	#6
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	I have three gas meters in my flat. One for me, one for the flat upstairs (they're in the basement) and one check meter installed before my time as there was a problem with fraudulent readings. I have notes through my door on a regular basis saying that someone has come to read the meter and I'm not in. I call the number to reschedule, only to find that no-one has been sent out. I explain ad nauseum that there are three meters and could they please check their records via postcode and house number but it always baffles them. They tell me not to worry, then I come home the next week to a threatening (standard) card saying that I have denied them access and if I do not reschedule they can request a warrant to enter the property. It doesn't cost me anything - except in terms of hassle - but it does prove the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac Last edited by Sundae; 09-12-2006 at 11:22 AM.

09-12-2006, 08:44 AM	#4
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	Yes, Last year Qwest charged me double for unregulated and regulated services for DSL. Unregulated fees are completly legal because this administration deregulated lots of stuff so the companys can stick it to us.

09-12-2006, 12:54 PM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Medical bills are routinely sent to the patient and insurance company. If they both pay, so much the better. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-12-2006, 01:00 PM	#8
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	We had a nightmare getting the electric bill sorted out right when we moved in, because of meter location problems. The previous owner had created an enclosed porch at the back of the house, which surrounded the electric meter, blocking access to it. No problem, our city has a read-it-yourself program for people with vicious dogs, etc., where you just turn the dials on a little card to match the meter and put it out on the fence for the meter man to see. If you forget to put your card out, policy is that they way over-estimate the usage--that is, add a huge number to whatever you had last month--and then you get a very low bill the next month, when you put the real reading out like you're supposed to. The first month we moved in, we didn't know about the card. So our first reading was one of those crazy-high estimates. Only the reading itself wasn't out-of-line with what the dials actually said. Logically, this meant the previous reading they were "adding" to was incorrectly low: i.e., the previous owner was cheating on their numbers, lying to get lower bills. However, this situation was complicated enough that it was completely over the head of every customer service rep at the phone company, especially when they were all programmed to assume I was complaining because the bill was so high, and they kept trying to explain to me how their over-estimating policy worked. I literally had to call 3 or 4 times in a row, every day for two weeks, until I had talked to every single customer service rep, and they all agreed together to forward my complaint to their boss just to get me off their backs. Fortunately he was smart enough to get it, and fixed the bill.

09-12-2006, 03:03 PM	#11
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	__________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

09-12-2006, 07:35 PM	#12
romuh doog A person with no friends is a. lonely b. friendless c.smelly Join Date: May 2006 Location: Here for now Posts: 69	Time Warner Cable has me personally red flagged and listed on their customer account list as hostile! Their A/P dept. wouldn't know a goose if it bit them in the arse, and when they came to get their equipment I hummed it out the front door into the road like a Medieval mace. Currently happy with DSL. __________________ If Washington's teeth were wooden, did Martha have splinters in her...lips?

09-13-2006, 07:52 AM	#13
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	You know, doog...I've heard countless others complain about TW Cable. Can't we break them down like they did to Ma Bell? There are other options, of course, but any other cable related still uses TW's lines, still giving them profit. Do you think they'd catch on that their PR is bad and they should change? No, they don't have to. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

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