this is Mr. StaceyV - Page 10

OnyxCougar · 03-02-2004, 05:02 PM

How about getting the hell out, and starting the divorce papers, thus ending his free ride in the US? He has to find another American meal ticket now. Staying just does him a favor.

kerosene · 03-02-2004, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jinx

Yes, actually, I am. It seems to me that he's trying to piss her off for a reason. I'd try to spend a little more time figuring out why and a little less time being manipulated.

Actually, IMO, to stay would be to continue to endure the manipulation. If she left, she would no longer have him around to manipulate her.

I guess, if I were in Stacey's shoes, I would not want to spend any more time trying to figure out why he treats her like this. I would probably just feel like I had had enough. Besides, even if he does tell her what is up, how can she believe him? If he lies about going to his friends' house, what stops him from lying about anything else? It's all fair game, now. I think this might be a major factor in why Stacey is so wound up, am I right, Stace? He tells her one thing and does the opposite in one aspect, but then expects her to believe wholeheartedly that he loves her. No wonder its driving her mad. It would me, too.

Stacey, good luck to you in whatever you decide to do. My suspicion is that Arsen is hard wired this way (inconsistent and dishonest) and it would take super-human patience and too much pain to wait for him to change. He simply won't. Right now, you are miserable. I am not going to tell you you should leave him, but you have to ask yourself if you can ever be happy with this person. So far, there is a pattern. He was dishonest in the beginning, with the whole Eva thing and now he has resolved to make things work, but is not fulfilling his side of the bargain (that he created.) How long can you tolerate, much less enjoy this? Of course everyone knows their own limits. You need to figure out where yours are.

jinx · 03-02-2004, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by case

Actually, IMO, to stay would be to continue to endure the manipulation. If she left, she would no longer have him around to manipulate her.

I guess that depends on what his motivation is. Could be it's just the "meal ticket" thing, but I have my doubts.
I don't think she should stick around and try to make it work with this guy - I was thinking about damage control I guess. You know there has to be lies that she hasn't found or figured out yet.

Or, maybe I'm just paranoid...

staceyv · 03-02-2004, 06:46 PM

If he lies about going to his friends' house, what stops him from lying about anything else? It's all fair game, now. I think this might be a major factor in why Stacey is so wound up, am I right, Stace?

yes, case you are right. this was supposed to be a time for rebuilding trust and trying to restore the relationship and then this happens...RIGHT after he swore that he would be honest and open with me.

i'll give you his side and excuses just to make sure this story isn't all MY point of view...
he said he had to go there and talk to one guy about his mother. it wasn't to party. fine, but i did say that i would go with him after work OR he couldv'e explained that to me instead of lying about where he was going...he said he didn't think i'd understand. he said the agreement was unfair (but instead of telling me that, he just lied and broke it. that's not honesty and openess) he says he should be able to go see his friends if he wants. he is right. the agreement was unfair. why not talk to me about it instead of lying to me? it seems like he is AFRAID to be honest with me. he is afraid to upset me and is afraid that i won't understand. he is afraid to voice his opinions if they differ from mine, so he goes along with whatver i say, but then does whatver he wants. i tried to tell him when we made the agreement that i wanted BRUTAL honesty. i promised to not punish him for that honesty. if i didn't like what i heard i wouldn't hold it against him, because i would be grateful that he was being honest. but he just didn't get it. he's a people pleaser. he wants to say the "right" things to make me happy. he doesn't know how to stand up for himself, it seems. i think he lied to protect himself, not to be sneaky and deceitful, but to avoid conflict- BUT by doing that, he made it so much worse!
either way, my trust is gone, and i wonder if it would ever click in his brain that it is better to be honest about something that i don't like, rather than to lie to avoid an argument...i don't want him to be afraid of me! it's not like i hit him or scream and yell. i'm not abusive. i don't get it. i believe he loves me and he has so many good qualities. he just doesn't GET it.

OnyxCougar · 03-02-2004, 07:05 PM

**shakes her head** ok. Good luck.

farfromhome · 03-02-2004, 08:05 PM

I may not know much, but I know this.
At least twice today I had to bite my tounge to prevent myself from telling co-workers that they had spit on my soul.

Elionwyr · 03-02-2004, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by OnyxCougar
I think you're trying to hold your marriage together by the strings, but you can't. I think this is where all your stress and anxiety is lately. I think that once you get out of it, and get away from him, and get started with your life again, that you'll be able to find that joy much easier than you can now. I think you already know its over, but you just don't want to face it, because it's too scary.

Stacey, let me state the obvious: OnyxCougar is speaking loads o' sense.

Leaving a relationship, especially when you love the person, is a horrible decision to have to make. You know you love him. He may indeed love you. But - as has been pointed out by others - the two of you are in a loop. A holding pattern.

Is this really what you want your life to be?

Back in November, I left my husband - packed up the cats and chinchillas, most of my books, and moved into an apartment on the other side of Philadelphia. We loved each other. Still do. But we'd been in varied states of being separated/working on our marriage/separated for nearly 2 years. What we were trying just wasn't working.

(I should add that it wasn't about abuse or cheating; it was about a lot of stuff, but the really nasty things weren't a part of the mix.)

I was waking up screaming on a somewhat regular basis.
Until the day I decided I needed to move out.

I moved out because we weren't in a healthy relationship. We weren't happy, we weren't finding a way to make things better. I thought that the distance would give us some time to decompress and figure out what we honestly wanted.

It did that.
And we're getting a divorce.
Which is the best - if sad - thing to do.

Now, I know that you and I are living different experiences, and I won't presume to even *suggest* what's best for you.

I will, however, offer you this:
One thing that helped me make my decision was a little experiment a dear friend suggested I try.
It involves taking a calendar and, without telling anyone else that you're doing it, rate your relationship on a daily basis for a month.

It has to be strictly about your RELATIONSHIP. Not the day-to-day work crap or driving crap or crapity crap. How do you feel about your lover?

A good day gets a

A bad day, a

A neutral day gets a

, too.

At the end of the month, count up your faces.

It gives you a visual way to record your emotional ups and downs. I found it to be very educational - but then, I only got through about 2-1/2 weeks, truth be told, because by then I realized that just about every day was a

So. For what it's worth, I offer you the idea.

Stacey, moving out is TERRIFYING. It is. If you leave, you will change your entire life.

But ya know...given a choice between being where I was because it was safe and I was bound to be there by marriage promises, or to be where I am now...as hard as it was to leave...I have no reason to look back.

Figure out what you want your life to be.
Know that the ONLY person you can really truly influence in this relationship is yourself.

Another quick example:
I had a boyfriend, years ago, that loved me. But he cheated. A lot. And it hurt. Much more than a lot.

I stayed because I believed that he loved me, and that eventually he'd figure out how much he was hurting me...and then he'd stop.

I left when I realized that he knew he was hurting me. But he wasn't going to change who he was. And my being a martyr to the relationship made absolutely no sense at all.

It's your life, woman.
Choose to own it.
Be happy.

nekee · 03-02-2004, 09:51 PM

It sounds like Arsen is quite the character. I say leave him and make a better life for yourself. Nobody needs to put up with wondering if their spouse will be coming home later or will they be out partying when they say they will be home. That is just plain ridiculous. If he doesn't have his green card yet and you are the vengeful type make sure he never gets married again so he gets deported.

wolf · 03-02-2004, 11:56 PM

Please correct me if I am misremembering this statement. I worked evening shift tonight, and will head in for day shift tomorrow, so I can't go back and do the research right now ... haven't you (stacey) said in the past that you hate or at least dislike going with him to hang out with his friends, as they sit around and speak Russian, leaving you wondering what the hell is going on? Also, he may well have been going for some guy time to talk about YOU. Not the best situation for you to be in, present as the topic of conversation in a language you don't understand.

I'm continuing to take the position that the "contract" was overly lopsided, more restrictive on his part, and unworkable.

Your situation will continue to be a mess if you allow it to be. You cannot change his behavior, only your own.

I'm guessing you have not approached a counselor at this point.

Do so ASAP. You need some perspective here.

staceyv · 03-03-2004, 12:15 AM

i was wrong about him lying because he is afraid of my reactions...that was, i guess, my twisted way of trying to rationalize why he is lying. we talked. he says he IS a liar and that he has a deceitful personality and that it's NOT my fault, i am a victim of it, and he needs to go to therapy and work this out on his own...he says it is just how he is and he wants to change, but doesn't know how. and i didn't coerce him into saying any of this, i just shut up and let him talk...these were his thoughts.

lumberjim · 03-03-2004, 12:16 AM

i think he was lying about being a liar.

Beestie · 03-03-2004, 05:58 AM

Originally posted by lumberjim

Quote:

i think he was lying about being a liar.

I'm not sure that's possible.

staceyv · 03-03-2004, 06:34 AM

he posted this on a marriage message board:

Hi everyone.
My name is Arsen, I am 23 years old and i am from Russia.
I have married an american girl not so long time ago and we have the
issues that ruin our relationship.
To make the things really easy and simple is the question of trust.
I am the guilty party here and i have the balls to say it out loud.
I have never cheated on my wife, before or after we got married, in
fact she is the second girl in my life i have had sex with.
All the problems that we have is of my behaviour as an emotionally
immature person. This is marriage counselor's words but they are
true.
Iseem to have a natural ability to screw things up. I am not gonna
tell you all the bad things I did - the list is too long. I am
sinful.
BUT i never cheated on my wife.
The problem is that I have a deceitful personality. In my wife's
words I am a f..g liar. I am a liar. I do not feel comfortable with
her playing a detective on me - but I drove her to that stage when
she just have to.
Right now, after another screw-up it has been to that stage that my
wife does not trust me at all. Not a single sentence i say mean
anything to her. She laughs at my explanations, at my attempts to
start the things over, at literally anything I say.
I am feeling that I have lost her forever.
But I don't want to loose her!!! I love my wife more than everybody
in this world. Everything I do is connecting to the thought of her
in my mind - because that is for her....
How can I win my wife's trust back?????
What should I do - because the words don't work anymore - to gain
her confident in me again???
I am not trying to convince you that i "have changed" or I am
a "better person now" i am just trying to figure out the way of
reaching her intimacy level she once had with me.
i am not a bad person, i am a silly person. Fools don't learn on
their mistakes- i want to be a little bit smarter to learn on my own.
I realize now - after we don't talk at all - that I am the one that
needs a therapy and I just need to learn a simple truth - that I
have to be absolutely open with her and that means everything - even
the slightest thoughts I have. I need to learn how to be open to
her. I need to be explained why it is important to be open with your
wife - and I swear! - I always am the one to dedicate my life to
hers. i am going to see the psychiatrist next week but for now I
still have the question open - how to win her back?
Because I love her so much. She is the only bright light in my
perveted life...
Arsen.

Happy Monkey · 03-03-2004, 06:41 AM

It sounds like he tends to start talking himself down "I'm a compulsive liar" or making ridiculous promises "I'll never go anywhere without you", in order to get you to try to talk him down. This puts you on the side of trying to say he isn't so bad.

I'm not sure if it's working, but it's somethng to watch out for.

Beestie · 03-03-2004, 07:04 AM

Quote:

he posted this on a marriage message board:

We aren't therapists, Stacey. We all want to help but I don't think its a good idea to ask us to psychoanalyse your husband.

I'm just getting the feeling that you want us to tell you what to do so you don't have to take responsibility for the decision. I mean, at what point do you say: ok, I have shared some info about my marraige, I have gotten some opinions, I have thought about things and here is my decision.

I am not sensing that you are moving towards a resolution as much as you are relishing the agony of the situation. There are 149 posts in this never-ending thread and you are no closer to a decision then when the thread started.

The only person who can make your life not suck is you. We have all been there Stacey and we have all somehow summoned the energy to do what needed to be done to preserve our emotional health.

Its your marraige, its your life. Your instinct is telling you what to do so quit asking questions and get on with it.

03-02-2004, 08:05 PM	#141
farfromhome Management Consultant Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Portland,OR/Conesus,NY Posts: 166	I may not know much, but I know this. At least twice today I had to bite my tounge to prevent myself from telling co-workers that they had spit on my soul. __________________ When you ain't got nothing-you ain't got nothing to lose.

03-02-2004, 09:51 PM	#143
nekee naughty nurse Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bummington NEW YORK Posts: 36	oh man It sounds like Arsen is quite the character. I say leave him and make a better life for yourself. Nobody needs to put up with wondering if their spouse will be coming home later or will they be out partying when they say they will be home. That is just plain ridiculous. If he doesn't have his green card yet and you are the vengeful type make sure he never gets married again so he gets deported.

03-02-2004, 11:56 PM	#144
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	Please correct me if I am misremembering this statement. I worked evening shift tonight, and will head in for day shift tomorrow, so I can't go back and do the research right now ... haven't you (stacey) said in the past that you hate or at least dislike going with him to hang out with his friends, as they sit around and speak Russian, leaving you wondering what the hell is going on? Also, he may well have been going for some guy time to talk about YOU. Not the best situation for you to be in, present as the topic of conversation in a language you don't understand. I'm continuing to take the position that the "contract" was overly lopsided, more restrictive on his part, and unworkable. Your situation will continue to be a mess if you allow it to be. You cannot change his behavior, only your own. I'm guessing you have not approached a counselor at this point. Do so ASAP. You need some perspective here. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

03-03-2004, 12:16 AM	#146
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	i think he was lying about being a liar. __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

03-03-2004, 06:41 AM	#149
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	It sounds like he tends to start talking himself down "I'm a compulsive liar" or making ridiculous promises "I'll never go anywhere without you", in order to get you to try to talk him down. This puts you on the side of trying to say he isn't so bad. I'm not sure if it's working, but it's somethng to watch out for. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-02-2004, 05:02 PM	#136
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	How about getting the hell out, and starting the divorce papers, thus ending his free ride in the US? He has to find another American meal ticket now. Staying just does him a favor.

03-02-2004, 06:46 PM	#139
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	If he lies about going to his friends' house, what stops him from lying about anything else? It's all fair game, now. I think this might be a major factor in why Stacey is so wound up, am I right, Stace? yes, case you are right. this was supposed to be a time for rebuilding trust and trying to restore the relationship and then this happens...RIGHT after he swore that he would be honest and open with me. i'll give you his side and excuses just to make sure this story isn't all MY point of view... he said he had to go there and talk to one guy about his mother. it wasn't to party. fine, but i did say that i would go with him after work OR he couldv'e explained that to me instead of lying about where he was going...he said he didn't think i'd understand. he said the agreement was unfair (but instead of telling me that, he just lied and broke it. that's not honesty and openess) he says he should be able to go see his friends if he wants. he is right. the agreement was unfair. why not talk to me about it instead of lying to me? it seems like he is AFRAID to be honest with me. he is afraid to upset me and is afraid that i won't understand. he is afraid to voice his opinions if they differ from mine, so he goes along with whatver i say, but then does whatver he wants. i tried to tell him when we made the agreement that i wanted BRUTAL honesty. i promised to not punish him for that honesty. if i didn't like what i heard i wouldn't hold it against him, because i would be grateful that he was being honest. but he just didn't get it. he's a people pleaser. he wants to say the "right" things to make me happy. he doesn't know how to stand up for himself, it seems. i think he lied to protect himself, not to be sneaky and deceitful, but to avoid conflict- BUT by doing that, he made it so much worse! either way, my trust is gone, and i wonder if it would ever click in his brain that it is better to be honest about something that i don't like, rather than to lie to avoid an argument...i don't want him to be afraid of me! it's not like i hit him or scream and yell. i'm not abusive. i don't get it. i believe he loves me and he has so many good qualities. he just doesn't GET it.

03-02-2004, 07:05 PM	#140
OnyxCougar Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Kingdom of Atlantia Posts: 2,979	shakes her head ok. Good luck.

03-03-2004, 12:15 AM	#145
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	i was wrong about him lying because he is afraid of my reactions...that was, i guess, my twisted way of trying to rationalize why he is lying. we talked. he says he IS a liar and that he has a deceitful personality and that it's NOT my fault, i am a victim of it, and he needs to go to therapy and work this out on his own...he says it is just how he is and he wants to change, but doesn't know how. and i didn't coerce him into saying any of this, i just shut up and let him talk...these were his thoughts.

03-03-2004, 06:34 AM	#148
staceyv Lecturer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 927	he posted this on a marriage message board: Hi everyone. My name is Arsen, I am 23 years old and i am from Russia. I have married an american girl not so long time ago and we have the issues that ruin our relationship. To make the things really easy and simple is the question of trust. I am the guilty party here and i have the balls to say it out loud. I have never cheated on my wife, before or after we got married, in fact she is the second girl in my life i have had sex with. All the problems that we have is of my behaviour as an emotionally immature person. This is marriage counselor's words but they are true. Iseem to have a natural ability to screw things up. I am not gonna tell you all the bad things I did - the list is too long. I am sinful. BUT i never cheated on my wife. The problem is that I have a deceitful personality. In my wife's words I am a f..g liar. I am a liar. I do not feel comfortable with her playing a detective on me - but I drove her to that stage when she just have to. Right now, after another screw-up it has been to that stage that my wife does not trust me at all. Not a single sentence i say mean anything to her. She laughs at my explanations, at my attempts to start the things over, at literally anything I say. I am feeling that I have lost her forever. But I don't want to loose her!!! I love my wife more than everybody in this world. Everything I do is connecting to the thought of her in my mind - because that is for her.... How can I win my wife's trust back????? What should I do - because the words don't work anymore - to gain her confident in me again??? I am not trying to convince you that i "have changed" or I am a "better person now" i am just trying to figure out the way of reaching her intimacy level she once had with me. i am not a bad person, i am a silly person. Fools don't learn on their mistakes- i want to be a little bit smarter to learn on my own. I realize now - after we don't talk at all - that I am the one that needs a therapy and I just need to learn a simple truth - that I have to be absolutely open with her and that means everything - even the slightest thoughts I have. I need to learn how to be open to her. I need to be explained why it is important to be open with your wife - and I swear! - I always am the one to dedicate my life to hers. i am going to see the psychiatrist next week but for now I still have the question open - how to win her back? Because I love her so much. She is the only bright light in my perveted life... Arsen.

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