9/21/2004: Hurricane Ivan damage

[tw]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

You offically have 2 months left in the hurricane season."Sunshine State", my ass! Oh, wait, we have had sunny, beautiful days! They're called, "The days I've had to go to work!"

Welcome to PA and NY in November, December, January, February, March, April, ....

[FloridaDragon]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

We don't expect to hold power much longer, though.

Yes another Floridian Kit, although I am thinking somewhere like Denver sounds a lot better right about now (no hurricanes!). Snow storms don't usually take your house away. We have lots of tile damage on the roof and some minor damage to the pool enclosure...but that is a small price to pay for a category 2 (Frances) and a cat 3 (Jeanne) double punch.

We have power back already which is a major miracle. I live near Stuart and the eye of both Frances and Jeanne passed directly over us ... two in three weeks... unbelievable. Underground utilities are wonderful!

Another funny sign (this time from Frances):


FD

[Kitsune]

We have power back already which is a major miracle. I live near Stuart and the eye of both Frances and Jeanne passed directly over us ... two in three weeks... unbelievable. Underground utilities are wonderful!

We didn't actually lose power this time around, which is a small miracle in itself. No damage, either, although from listening to the police scanner I'd say we were the exception and not the rule.

Low pressure weather systems, by the way, really suck, and I mean in the sense that it affects your mood. At least for me, I felt like sleeping all day but couldn't because of the wind, so I got extremely annoyed. Mix that with nothing on television and my want to avoid studying for as long as possible and it made for a really bad weekend. At this rate I'll actually be happy to go work work, tomorrow, instead of sitting inside all day.

[stlbob]

Originally Posted by FloridaDragon

I am sure the beer truck is not an "official" member of the relief convoy but I am sure he was popular when he got there anyway.
FloridaDragon

That beer truck would be loaded down with cans of water. Anheuser-Busch is always one of the first companies to aid in disaster relief. In the past five years, Anheuser-Busch has donated more than 40 million cans of water to victims of natural disasters.


Last month (Aug), Anheuser-Busch donated 24,000 cases -- or more than a half-million cans -- of drinking water to aid the victims and rescue workers in Florida who were impacted by Hurricane Charley. The Anheuser-Busch Foundation also donated $100,000 to hurricane relief efforts in the state, giving $50,000 to The Salvation Army and $50,000 to the American Red Cross.

http://www.anheuser-busch.com/news/

[tw]

Originally Posted by FloridaDragon

We have power back already ... Underground utilities are wonderful!

Now we demonstrate perspective. In America, the news reports list all those places that lost power. Disaster. In the BCC, they also mention how those dumb Americans still hang power wires from poles. Of course they lose power as the BBC story goes. They still put the electric lines in a most stupid place - hanging from wooden poles where all wires are damaged when they are most needed - right after the big storm.

Imagine what would happen to the US if we spent a few $billion on burying utility lines rather than spending hundreds of $billions liberating people who did not want to be liberated.

When they hype the cost of a storm, then first ask how much money would have been saved by putting those lines where they should have been, and by meeting standard and well proven construction codes. These are storm that we should build to protect from. We must build for what may happen in the next hundred years. Hurricanes are a fact of life and are known to be increased by global warming. Time to deal with reality. Where local power lines are not buried, then we have damage directly traceable to humans.

[Kitsune]

Imagine what would happen to the US if we spent a few $billion on burying utility lines rather than spending hundreds of $billions liberating people who did not want to be liberated.

...

Uh, well, that was some unexpected logic. Did you just tie hurricane-induced power outtages with the Iraq war on a random whim or is there more to this than I'm reading?

They still put the electric lines in a most stupid place - hanging from wooden poles where all wires are damaged when they are most needed - right after the big storm.

We have just a little more distance to cover over here with power infrastructure in the US than Europe and, of course, no one wants to pay for it. Besides, its all cost and politics, anyways.

[glatt]

Besides, when the typical home owner goes to install a new mailbox, they don't normally call "miss utility" or whetever the local underground utility finder is. That can be a very expensive mistake for everyone when they cut the wire by accident. When the wires are 30 feet overhead, it's a lot harder to mess with them.

They sure are ugly though.

[FloridaDragon]

Originally Posted by stlbob

That beer truck would be loaded down with cans of water. Anheuser-Busch is always one of the first companies to aid in disaster relief. In the past five years, Anheuser-Busch has donated more than 40 million cans of water to victims of natural disasters.

Well that takes all the fun out of thinking of opening up a nice cold can of beer after chainsawing trees all day that fell on and around your house....
(I can say this as I am still all scratched and banged up from doing just that)

FEMA supplies plenty of drinking water ... Anheuser-Busch would be more welcome if it was loaded with Bud and Bud Light!

(Note: I am not trying to negate the great humanitarian efforts of A-B in the slightest! Wish more corporate giants were that kind hearted).

FD

[russotto]

Burying things in Florida is always a little on the iffy side anyway. As is burying anything in PA, though for different reasons. Underground water mains break for a reason.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Imagine what would happen to the US if we spent a few $billion on burying utility lines rather than spending hundreds of $billions liberating people who did not want to be liberated.

...

Uh, well, that was some unexpected logic. Did you just tie hurricane-induced power outtages with the Iraq war on a random whim or is there more to this than I'm reading?

Its called guns or butter. Either we spend $billions on a airplane that did not have a function for decades - the B-1 bomber never worked for nearly a generation - or we build schools. We could be rebuilding our infastructure OR we could liberate people who don't want to be liberated.

Many are now advocating we enlarge our military. Its too small. Screw the people in FL. We will drop a massive debt on their kids and leave them to keep replacing their power lines. Better to invest $400billion on Iraq.

Currently with a president who literally perverts science and undermines in four years what professional diplomats and generals accomplished over 40 years - then little solutions such as making FL hurricane resistant can not happen. Do we rescue the world when the world does not even want to be saved - or do we advance America. Sorry if I view from a larger perspective. But I am asking what will we be doing 10 years from now - still putting electric lines back up on poles while enlarging a military that is already larger than the next five countries combined. Fighting how many more Arab insurgents while killing off another 800 Americans every year? This neocon thinking is always a first step to destruction of a world leading power. It starts when we don't even improve our own infastructure.

Some people see damage in FL as something to be repeatedly repaired. I see it as a mistake that we should be eliminating now so that it does not happen again. But that means we must have our people working where they can be productive - not wasting time trying to restore electricity where Saddam had no problem doing same.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

Besides, when the typical home owner goes to install a new mailbox, they don't normally call "miss utility" or whetever the local underground utility finder is. That can be a very expensive mistake for everyone when they cut the wire by accident. When the wires are 30 feet overhead, it's a lot harder to mess with them.

Buried wires are 2.5 feet deep. When does the typical homeowner dig 3 feet to install a mailbox? Furthermore, the homeowner always must call the utility where utility lines may exist. It does not take a genius to see the utility box on the street and the electric meter on the side of a house; then draw a line.

Buried wires are automatically located and for free. Furthermore, it takes far more than a shovel to pierce those wires. Covering material (ususally a few inches of sand or other protective materail) provides warning of those wires. In short it is difficult to harm buried wires.

When is the best time to have wires broken? When the weather is nice , OR when electricity is desperately needed everywhere, not available anywhere, and all wires need fixing at the same time.

Damage to buried wires tends to occur when it is not a problem and when it can most easily be repaired. The only reason we put wires overhead: its cheaper from a bean counter MBA perspective which only looks at today's costs. Analysis of infastruture looks at the real long term costs. It makes no sense to hang wires from poles in oceanside FL communities that will probably see a 120 MPH storm every 20+ years. A time span too long for most MBA thinkers.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by tw

Buried wires are 2.5 feet deep. When does the typical homeowner dig 3 feet to install a mailbox?

When the local teens are keen on mailbox baseball.

[Kitsune]

We could be rebuilding our infastructure OR we could liberate people who don't want to be liberated.

I don't agree with the methods in which my tax dollars are being spent. Really, I don't. I can't stand that money is coming out of my pocket and is essentially being burried in the sand half a world away. It enrages me, infuriates me. I hate seeing American soldiers die for what I think was a deception, a lie. My money is going to fund a war that I don't think we can ever win in which my fellow citizens are dying.

But the first thing that comes to my mind when I think about it is not, "Gee, that blood money could be used to install power underground in Florida." There are, without a doubt, several thousand issues that the war is taking money from that are far more important in the US ahead of keeping Floridians powered at this time.

Do we rescue the world when the world does not even want to be saved - or do we advance America.

Let's see... Federal tax dollars going to bury power lines in a Southern state. Um, no? As in: that ain't where my, yours, or anyone else's federal tax money should go?

(yes, I know federal aid follwing a disaster plays a part in all of this. That's another argument, entirely.)

Sorry if I view from a larger perspective.

I think you might be viewing this from too large a perspective, not to mention that you're suggesting federal dollars go to a state problem. And your argument is so emotionally and politically charged that I can't help but think you've posted it under a hurricane thread when you really intended to put it in the political forum. You're linking the Iraq war with people losing power following a storm. Not feeding the hungry, helping the poor, assisting the jobless, improving the environment, international aid, scientific research, funding to prevent AIDs, drug rehab programs, or even promotion of a cure for cancer. You're upset that the ice cream in someone's fridge melted when a tree went down on their lines. Oh, the humanity.

It makes no sense to hang wires from poles in oceanside FL communities that will probably see a 120 MPH storm every 20+ years.

Of course it doesn't and I agree, but do you realize that the people of Florida don't agree with you? You do understand that the majority of the people here would rather see a small increase in their power bills after a storm to replace equipment that is almost garunteed to be destroyed again in less than a decade than put out a huge amount of money at once to put it underground? A massive investment to prevent losing power for ~48 hours once every 20+ years doesn't make sense to the taxpayer. I would love, love to see the infrastructure here updated to 1970s technology at some point in my lifetime. The problem is that no one wants to pay for it, regardless of the consequences.

Besides, living in Florida you kind of expect this. We all know that any year now a storm so massive could come along and completely wipe out our houses and cities -- power is often the least of our worries. We all watch the "cone of probability" with great fear, knowing that it could change any of our lives forever if we happen to be "lucky" enough to call an area home that happens to be within the path of the eye. For the smaller storms or living on the edge of one that hits, we're usually all well prepared with batteries, water, generators, etc. For those that do live here and haven't prepared, you get what's coming to you.

Really, we're all upset when the "green pinwheel of death" marches across the meterologist's map and wipes trailers, houses, and communities from the landscape. We hate losing phone service and being forced to boil water. We're frustrated and tired of seeing no gasoline available at the gas stations as we drive past on our way to evacuate up a jammed interstate. But I've never met anyone that walked, flashlight in hand, to a warm fridge in the middle of the night while clenching their teeth that said, "Goddamn that George W. Bush and his war, spoiling my milk."

[Cyber Wolf]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

You're upset that the ice cream in someone's fridge melted when a tree went down on their lines. Oh, the humanity.

Depending on the ice cream, that could be a fully legit complaint

[xoxoxoBruce]

There was a case around here, in the last couple years, where a guy tried to put a picket fence along his front yard. Holiday weekend and he dug into the power supply for the whole subdivision, only 2 feet down. Lots of pissed off neighbors, and a huge bill from the Electric company for the fix. Of course he's damn lucky he didn't fry.