Women and Self Esteem

Kitsune · 06-04-2004, 09:50 AM

Do all women have a problem with low self esteem? I know there is a fairly bad problem with women and their idea of the ideal appearance thanks to the media and advertising, but in recent years I've noticed a really disturbing trend in nearly all the girls I've dated or known as friends: it is very rare to come across one who hasn't been in some sort of abusive relationship. Even if they seem perfectly normal at first, eventually a past experience comes to the surface and you get to hear all about it. If they haven't had a boyfriend that beat them up in the past, they had an abusive father and if they didn't have an abusive father, they never knew their father because he left long before they ever got to know him. These childhood/teenage experiences usually result in a poor-spirited adult who can't seem to make good decisions or stand up for themselves. Its not only sad to see a person have to live with all of those mental burdens, its really frustrating in a relationship. In fact, it is usually what destroys it. I'm not a counsellor.

At first I just thought it was horrible luck on my part, but then I started asking my friends and they seem to indicate the same thing: a very high percentage of the girls they've known or dated were "broken" and had horribly low self esteem usually brought on by a past abusive relationship or bad family life.

Where all the normal women at?

glatt · 06-04-2004, 09:55 AM

I'm married to a normal one.
Don't know how common they are.
Maybe you are attracted subconsiously to the broken ones? Don't mean that as an insult. Just throwing it out there as a possibility.

Griff · 06-04-2004, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kitsune
Where all the normal women at?

We try to get them off the market immediately. You do realize that you can help your womans self-esteem. Challenge her to do the things she is unsure of but you know she can do...

Kitsune · 06-04-2004, 09:59 AM

Maybe you are attracted subconsiously to the broken ones?

No insult taken -- I've considered this. I've listened to enough of Love Lines in my time to know that that is often how it works.

If that is the case, I have to break out of it. I know I can't take it, anymore. I have, in fact, dated non-broken girls and those relationships usually ended because they had a habit I couldn't stand and they refused to give up or lighten up (mostly smoking).

I can't tolerate that smell, much less a kiss from one. Eech.

glatt · 06-04-2004, 10:06 AM

I agree on the smoking. But for me, I never started anything with a smoker. They were not even in the running. Better for them and for me.

perth · 06-04-2004, 10:13 AM

Wait wait wait. You dumped otherwise perfectly normal girls because they smoked? Hey, that's cool if you can't tolerate it, but for pity's sake, send em my way!

Kitsune · 06-04-2004, 10:23 AM

You dumped otherwise perfectly normal girls because they smoked? Hey, that's cool if you can't tolerate it, but for pity's sake, send em my way!

You can have 'em. It is now my policy to not even consider dating a girl that smokes. It takes an incredible amount of willpower to tolerate being around someone who does if you aren't used to it.

That smell that permeates their clothing, hair, and skin... That taste on their lips... if you didn't grow up with someone that smokes or don't smoke yourself, it is enough to make you sick.

perth · 06-04-2004, 10:27 AM

Oh I know. My first serious girlfriend was a smoker, back before I smoked, so I remember what it was like. Actually, I'm trying to quit smoking (again) so I probably want to stay away form the smokers myself. But I personally would gladly take a smoker who can accept a compliment graciously over a nonsmoker who refused to believe any nice thing I said to her.

Beestie · 06-04-2004, 10:41 AM

I have noticed that people that end up together "fit" together - fit in the dovetail sense - they have complimentary qualities. So, in this example, people with low-self esteem (be they male or female) end up with people who they don't think will injure them there (in their sensitive spot) - people that they feel "safe" around - people who make them feel good about themselves.

I mean, if you had some kind of vulnerability (an eye in the middle of your forehead) and had suffered as a consequence (strangers and people you cared about made fun of it) wouldn't you be attracted to someone who was perfectly fine with it or, better yet, thought it was endearing or even sexy? I think that is the longest sentence I have ever typed. Anyway, see what I am saying?

I'm guessing that there is something about the way you treat women like that that makes them like you which, in turn makes them attractive to you. The only problem with this is that if you ever do "fix" the person - restore their self-esteem - then what brought you together in the first place (the glue) is gone and the relationship sours - usually not because you like the person less but because they like you less. Funny how that works but I've seen it many times.

perth · 06-04-2004, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Beestie
The only problem with this is that if you ever do "fix" the person - restore their self-esteem - then what brought you together in the first place (the glue) is gone and the relationship sours - usually not because you like the person less but because they like you less. Funny how that works but I've seen it many times.

Yeah, I've seen that too.

Kitsune · 06-04-2004, 10:55 AM

So, in this example, people with low-self esteem (be they male or female) end up with people who they don't think will injure them

So what is with all the battered women who always end up in abusive relationships and seem to need it? The "oh he beats me up now and then but he still loves me" kind? Those people are way, way too far gone.

Beestie · 06-04-2004, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Kitsune

Quote:

So what is with all the battered women who always end up in abusive relationships and seem to need it? The "oh he beats me up now and then but he still loves me" kind? Those people are way, way too far gone.

That's a good question and I'm not really expert enough to say. My opionion is that women (and men) who stay in abusive relationships do so because the abuse is inextricably intertwined with the emotion of love as a result of how they were treated as children and that any love offered to these people that is not accompanied by abuse seems shallow and unsatisfying.

Imagine a rope with 100 strands. 35 of the strands are abuse but to the abused, the entire rope - each and every strand is love or some aspect of love. The outsider sees the 35 abuse strands and rejects the entire rope out of hand. The abused will always choose the "stronger" love - the 100 strand rope. The only difference they see is the relative strength of the two ropes. A bizzare example but hopefully it makes it clearer.

Children learn love from how their parents treat them. Their understanding of love becomes ingrained so deeply that they are not even aware, when they grow older, what its constitution is. When children are abused, the abuse and love, in the mind of the child, become one. Later in life, when a grown up abused child encounters a relationship that has the same character as their relationship with the abusive parent (abuse/outpouring of affection/abuse/affection/etc.) they are almost certain, other details excepted and the timing is right, to fall in love.

My guess is that if we could all look inside ourselves and look at the substance of love - what's in our mind - what its made of and where it came from - that a lot of us would be shocked and some of us would be terrified. I think our mind realizes this and takes extraordinary measures to protect us from that information. And I think this is why a lot of what passes for love in this world makes no sense at all.

[edited - rope example added - no other changes]

xoxoxoBruce · 06-04-2004, 11:53 AM

Don't forget that abuse, short of physical, is in the eye of the beholder. I've met people who claimed to have been psychologically abused, only to determine from the stories they told, that they felt abused because their significant other refused to bow to outrageous demands.
Refusing to paint the exterior of the house shocking pink, is not abuse.

Undertoad · 06-04-2004, 11:58 AM

You do realize that you can help your womans self-esteem. Challenge her to do the things she is unsure of but you know she can do...

...for example, she's perfectly capable of leaving your sorry ass and finding someone *better*!

but maybe my experience is unusual

xoxoxoBruce · 06-04-2004, 12:01 PM

Absolutely not , UT. Actually more common than uncommon.

06-04-2004, 09:50 AM	#1
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Women and Self Esteem Do all women have a problem with low self esteem? I know there is a fairly bad problem with women and their idea of the ideal appearance thanks to the media and advertising, but in recent years I've noticed a really disturbing trend in nearly all the girls I've dated or known as friends: it is very rare to come across one who hasn't been in some sort of abusive relationship. Even if they seem perfectly normal at first, eventually a past experience comes to the surface and you get to hear all about it. If they haven't had a boyfriend that beat them up in the past, they had an abusive father and if they didn't have an abusive father, they never knew their father because he left long before they ever got to know him. These childhood/teenage experiences usually result in a poor-spirited adult who can't seem to make good decisions or stand up for themselves. Its not only sad to see a person have to live with all of those mental burdens, its really frustrating in a relationship. In fact, it is usually what destroys it. I'm not a counsellor. At first I just thought it was horrible luck on my part, but then I started asking my friends and they seem to indicate the same thing: a very high percentage of the girls they've known or dated were "broken" and had horribly low self esteem usually brought on by a past abusive relationship or bad family life. Where all the normal women at?

06-04-2004, 10:41 AM	#9
Beestie -◊\|≡·∙■·∙≡\|◊- Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Parts unknown. Posts: 4,081	I have noticed that people that end up together "fit" together - fit in the dovetail sense - they have complimentary qualities. So, in this example, people with low-self esteem (be they male or female) end up with people who they don't think will injure them there (in their sensitive spot) - people that they feel "safe" around - people who make them feel good about themselves. I mean, if you had some kind of vulnerability (an eye in the middle of your forehead) and had suffered as a consequence (strangers and people you cared about made fun of it) wouldn't you be attracted to someone who was perfectly fine with it or, better yet, thought it was endearing or even sexy? I think that is the longest sentence I have ever typed. Anyway, see what I am saying? I'm guessing that there is something about the way you treat women like that that makes them like you which, in turn makes them attractive to you. The only problem with this is that if you ever do "fix" the person - restore their self-esteem - then what brought you together in the first place (the glue) is gone and the relationship sours - usually not because you like the person less but because they like you less. Funny how that works but I've seen it many times. __________________ ♠ ♥ ♣ ♦

06-04-2004, 11:53 AM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Don't forget that abuse, short of physical, is in the eye of the beholder. I've met people who claimed to have been psychologically abused, only to determine from the stories they told, that they felt abused because their significant other refused to bow to outrageous demands. Refusing to paint the exterior of the house shocking pink, is not abuse. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-04-2004, 12:01 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Absolutely not , UT. Actually more common than uncommon. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-04-2004, 09:55 AM	#2
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I'm married to a normal one. Don't know how common they are. Maybe you are attracted subconsiously to the broken ones? Don't mean that as an insult. Just throwing it out there as a possibility.

06-04-2004, 09:59 AM	#4
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	Maybe you are attracted subconsiously to the broken ones? No insult taken -- I've considered this. I've listened to enough of Love Lines in my time to know that that is often how it works. If that is the case, I have to break out of it. I know I can't take it, anymore. I have, in fact, dated non-broken girls and those relationships usually ended because they had a habit I couldn't stand and they refused to give up or lighten up (mostly smoking). I can't tolerate that smell, much less a kiss from one. Eech.

06-04-2004, 10:06 AM	#5
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	I agree on the smoking. But for me, I never started anything with a smoker. They were not even in the running. Better for them and for me.

06-04-2004, 10:13 AM	#6
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	Wait wait wait. You dumped otherwise perfectly normal girls because they smoked? Hey, that's cool if you can't tolerate it, but for pity's sake, send em my way!

06-04-2004, 10:23 AM	#7
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	You dumped otherwise perfectly normal girls because they smoked? Hey, that's cool if you can't tolerate it, but for pity's sake, send em my way! You can have 'em. It is now my policy to not even consider dating a girl that smokes. It takes an incredible amount of willpower to tolerate being around someone who does if you aren't used to it. That smell that permeates their clothing, hair, and skin... That taste on their lips... if you didn't grow up with someone that smokes or don't smoke yourself, it is enough to make you sick.

06-04-2004, 10:27 AM	#8
perth Strong Silent Type Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Fort Collins, CO Posts: 1,949	Oh I know. My first serious girlfriend was a smoker, back before I smoked, so I remember what it was like. Actually, I'm trying to quit smoking (again) so I probably want to stay away form the smokers myself. But I personally would gladly take a smoker who can accept a compliment graciously over a nonsmoker who refused to believe any nice thing I said to her.

06-04-2004, 10:55 AM	#11
Kitsune still eats dirt Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 3,031	So, in this example, people with low-self esteem (be they male or female) end up with people who they don't think will injure them So what is with all the battered women who always end up in abusive relationships and seem to need it? The "oh he beats me up now and then but he still loves me" kind? Those people are way, way too far gone.

06-04-2004, 11:58 AM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	You do realize that you can help your womans self-esteem. Challenge her to do the things she is unsure of but you know she can do... ...for example, she's perfectly capable of leaving your sorry ass and finding someone better! but maybe my experience is unusual

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