Critique of Black Culture - Page 6

elSicomoro · 12-18-2004, 11:00 AM

Oh yeah...Vieques was all his doing. Anyway...

lookout123 · 12-18-2004, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

I don't think that there's anything wrong with celebrating our differences as people. The problems start when one group thinks of themselves as superior to others.

but that is inevitable. group relationships always fall into competition and conflict on some level.

think about when you were a kid on some sports team. you hated those bastards on the other team. they didn't play like you. they weren't as good as your team and they cheated, too. fast forward 12 months and the teams have shifted. now that some of those guys from the other team are on your team, they aren't so bad afterall. all of humanity is divided into "us and them". the more actively a group maintains its separateness and differentness, the more likely it will be viewed with suspicion and negative attitudes.

i'm not saying that we shouldn't all be proud of who we are, but there are much more important aspects of oneself to take pride in than our color.

why should you be proud of your color anyway? could you change it if you weren't especially proud of it? and how about guys like us syc? - "i'm proud to be white." if that isn't an invitation for people to wonder if you are white supremist i don't know what is. but you hear about black pride, hispanic pride, etc. and it is just dandy.

mrnoodle · 12-18-2004, 02:04 PM

The term "pride" carries a bunch of societal baggage these days. "Black pride," "white pride," "gay pride," all conjure instant associations with fringe groups. Another perfectly good word appropriated by special interests and taken out of everyday usage for the rest of us.

elSicomoro · 12-18-2004, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

the more actively a group maintains its separateness and differentness, the more likely it will be viewed with suspicion and negative attitudes.

There can be a lot of factors involved with that, though...relationship between the two groups, history between them, etc.

Quote:

i'm not saying that we shouldn't all be proud of who we are, but there are much more important aspects of oneself to take pride in than our color.

Color is only a small part of it. It's about pride in a people.

Quote:

why should you be proud of your color anyway?

See above.

Quote:

could you change it if you weren't especially proud of it?

Watch the movie Black Like Me...or look at Michael Jackson.

Quote:

"i'm proud to be white." if that isn't an invitation for people to wonder if you are white supremist i don't know what is. but you hear about black pride, hispanic pride, etc. and it is just dandy.

And Italian pride, and German pride, and Irish pride...

For a very long time, it wasn't cool to be different from the norm--hell, it's still not cool in some circles. Then some folks began a counter-culture of sorts..."Hey, there's nothing wrong with me being different! In fact, it's cool as shit!" And it went from there...

If people are proud of being white, hey, that's fine. The problem is that "I'm proud to be white/white pride/white power" are the equivalents of "nigger." You can make it incredibly positive or empowering, but it's gonna be tough--if not impossible--to shake the negative connotations historically associated with the words.

Troubleshooter · 12-18-2004, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

Oh yeah...Vieques was all his doing. Anyway...

I'm willing to bet that if he hadn't stuck his nose in where it didn't belong that there would still be a base there. Lobby groups can try to extort money from all of the private sector companies that they want, but as has been shown all the military has to do is utter a hardy "Fuck you Silver, away!" and problem solved.

Troubleshooter · 12-18-2004, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

Color is only a small part of it. It's about pride in a people.

What exactly is a people?

What do Italians have to be proud of?

What do Spaniards have to be proud of?

What do Chinese have to be proud of?

What do blacks have to be proud of?

lookout123 · 12-18-2004, 02:36 PM

again - i'm more impressed with someone who simply says "proud to be american". everyone wants to celebrate and tout their differentness but then turn around and cry because america has become so divided.

Undertoad · 12-18-2004, 02:44 PM

I can think of only two groups in which I sometimes feel pride.

- My generation: I feel a kinship with people my age more than with any other group. The distinct experiences that we share, even from thousands of miles apart, are amazing. I really hope that my generation's time in power will undo some of the bullshit approaches of the past. Although from human nature I know that we also bring new problems to the table as well.

(In April of 2003 it was thought that my generation had finally faced a challenge and faced it head-on. We were 2-0 and kicking ass. By one year later with Abu Ghraib, we had really completely blown it for the free world and the past victories were forgotten. This is my generation's calling: we will simultaneously fucking clean up the baby boomer's mess AND take the blame for it. Knowing the truth, I feel pride for us.)

- Americans: the connection is weaker, but from time to time it comes through and gives me that moment of pride.

elSicomoro · 12-18-2004, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

I'm willing to bet that if he hadn't stuck his nose in where it didn't belong that there would still be a base there.

Possibly, but Sharpton wasn't the only high-profile person protesting, and there had already been problems with Vieques two years prior to him getting involved.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-18-2004, 02:49 PM

Maybe we should do less celebrating of our differences and more celebrating of our commonality.
That's it.....Everybody Poops Day!

elSicomoro · 12-18-2004, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

What exactly is a people?

My use of "people" in this case refers to people who have a shared ancestry, history and culture.

Quote:

What do Italians have to be proud of?

What do Spaniards have to be proud of?

What do Chinese have to be proud of?

What do blacks have to be proud of?

Each group has plenty to be proud of...off the top of my head, the Spaniards and Italians can claim Columbus, the Chinese helped build railroads out west and blacks have brought us different types of music and food.

Troubleshooter · 12-18-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

Each group has plenty to be proud of...off the top of my head, the Spaniards and Italians can claim Columbus, the Chinese helped build railroads out west and blacks have brought us different types of music and food.

A bit of a disparity in scale eh?

elSicomoro · 12-18-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

again - i'm more impressed with someone who simply says "proud to be american". everyone wants to celebrate and tout their differentness but then turn around and cry because america has become so divided.

I don't think we've ever been as united as some people think. And right now, I think the divisiveness we have is due to strong differences in opinion...differences that cross racial and economic divides.

I am proud to be American, but there are times when I am embarrassed to be so. And I can understand why some folks are not proud to be American...I hope that we can get to the point where those folks are proud one day.

elSicomoro · 12-18-2004, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

A bit of a disparity in scale eh?

How so?

elSicomoro · 12-18-2004, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Maybe we should do less celebrating of our differences and more celebrating of our commonality.
That's it.....Everybody Poops Day!

How about Bruce is a Big Ol' Poop Day?

12-18-2004, 02:04 PM	#78
mrnoodle bent Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: under the weather Posts: 2,656	The term "pride" carries a bunch of societal baggage these days. "Black pride," "white pride," "gay pride," all conjure instant associations with fringe groups. Another perfectly good word appropriated by special interests and taken out of everyday usage for the rest of us. __________________ Sìn a nall na cuaranan sin. -- Cha mhór is fheairrde thu iad, tha iad coltach ri cat air a dhathadh

12-18-2004, 02:36 PM	#82
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	again - i'm more impressed with someone who simply says "proud to be american". everyone wants to celebrate and tout their differentness but then turn around and cry because america has become so divided. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

12-18-2004, 02:49 PM	#85
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Maybe we should do less celebrating of our differences and more celebrating of our commonality. That's it.....Everybody Poops Day! __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-18-2004, 11:00 AM	#76
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Oh yeah...Vieques was all his doing. Anyway...

12-18-2004, 02:44 PM	#83
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I can think of only two groups in which I sometimes feel pride. - My generation: I feel a kinship with people my age more than with any other group. The distinct experiences that we share, even from thousands of miles apart, are amazing. I really hope that my generation's time in power will undo some of the bullshit approaches of the past. Although from human nature I know that we also bring new problems to the table as well. (In April of 2003 it was thought that my generation had finally faced a challenge and faced it head-on. We were 2-0 and kicking ass. By one year later with Abu Ghraib, we had really completely blown it for the free world and the past victories were forgotten. This is my generation's calling: we will simultaneously fucking clean up the baby boomer's mess AND take the blame for it. Knowing the truth, I feel pride for us.) - Americans: the connection is weaker, but from time to time it comes through and gives me that moment of pride.

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