Do you make 'enough' money?

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by jinx

The people in this country who rely on the socialized medicine we already have don't seem too happy with it. It (their health care) doesn't seem to be something they don't have to worry too much about - well getting it anyway, paying for it isn't a worry I guess...

Well, actually, paying for it IS a problem. Low income elderly on fixed incomes usually qualify for Medicare only, and Medicare doesn't cover stuff like costly prescriptions or medical procedures. They have to pay out of pocket for these things, and many elderly on fixed incomes find themselves getting substandard medical care as a result.

Those who qualify for Medicaid in addition to Medicare are somewhat better off. At least their prescriptions and much of their other medical costs are covered. Trouble is that more and more doctors are refusing Medicare/Medicaid patients, because Uncle Sugar ain't paying the Doc's the high fees they've come to demand. So, maybe its MD's who are unhappy with their incomes.

[lookout123]

maybe it's MD's who have weighed the risk/reward and have said - nope, not gonna do that. As is their right.

My dentist only charges half his established prices for anyone who doesn't use their dental insurance, because the paperwork and bureaucracy is such a damn pain. He says his cashflow is lower, but his profit is higher.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by SamIam

Uncle Sugar ain't paying the Doc's the high fees they've come to demand.

Do you personally know any doctors? Between malpractice insurance, and paying for medical school, plus the huge headache of paperwork just to get whatever the government/insurance companies have said they're going to pay today... they're not living nearly as nicely as you'd like to imagine. My OB-GYN has recently had to start offering laser hair removal and other cosmetic shit in his office, because the regular practice isn't paying for itself.

[Undertoad]

My OB-GYN has recently had to start offering laser hair removal and other cosmetic shit in his office

"Hey Doc, as long as you're down there...!"

[limey]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

congrats!

and sorry if i missed that announcement if it was made!

i hope you are getting it regularly.

Thank you.
That was the announcement right there.
Yes, thanks.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

"Hey Doc, as long as you're down there...!"

That's a pretty good idea. At least the reward after the uncomfortable exam would be a shiny clean nether region.

[theotherguy]

I am sure someone already posted this, but I am not reading five pages just to find out.

I want more, but I am also content for today. I make enough to pay the bills, fund retirement, and have some toys, but I want more so I can pay off the bills faster, retire sooner, and have more toys. I also want to have enough to pay for my kids college (actually, I want them to get scholarships) so they don't have to work during school. I could say more here, but, alas, I am too lazy during my lunch hangover to continue typing.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Do you personally know any doctors? Between malpractice insurance, and paying for medical school, plus the huge headache of paperwork just to get whatever the government/insurance companies have said they're going to pay today... they're not living nearly as nicely as you'd like to imagine. My OB-GYN has recently had to start offering laser hair removal and other cosmetic shit in his office, because the regular practice isn't paying for itself.

As a matter of fact, my ex step father is a retired doctor. He took early retirement rather than continue to deal with the whole malpractice nightmare. However, he got his medical training paid for by the Air Force in exchange for him agreeing to work for them as a flight surgeon for x number of years. Don't know if the military still has such programs, but I certainly realize that the normal cost of a medical education is very high. My step father had to go to all these on-going education things to keep his licence current, too.

I'm in agreement that Doc's should have the right to choose whom they are going to treat and what insurance they will accept. IMO, the entire malpractice thing plus the insurance companies and their ever increasing demands for more paperwork, more fussy rules and regulations are responsible as anything else for the escalating cost of medical care.

So maybe its the stockholders of insurance companies who are unhappy with their income.

[lookout123]

it isn't an issue of one group wanting more money. too many conflicting interests and too much bureaucratic BS.

A lot of folks in my area head south of the border for medical care. They are treated by american trained (and often american) medical staff, using the latest techniques and best practices. They pay a fraction of the cost and don't have to mess around with referrals, insurance companies, copays, etc.

If they want X treatment, then they need to pay Y (which happens to be a fraction of the cost within the US) If you can't pay, you don't get treated.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by lookout123

If they want X treatment, then they need to pay Y (which happens to be a fraction of the cost within the US) If you can't pay, you don't get treated.

Well, I guess it depends upon what sort of society you prefer to live in. I've visited extremely poor areas of South America and once came across a dead man lying on the sidewalk in front of me. Less dramatic, but still distressing were the number of people suffering from diseases which could have been cured if only they'd had the money to get medical care.

One reason medical care in Mexico and other third world countries is less expensive is that the standard of living is so much lower. I don't think the doctors have to worry about malpractice to the extent they do in a first world country, either.

BTW, if you want an idea of the horrible standards of living that US OB-GYN's have to endure, you might Google some of the recruiting websites for that speciality. The one I looked at was full of offers to help prospective new doctors pay off student loans, cover malpractice insurance and more. When salaries were mentioned, they were in the 150K to 200K range - not bad for a new entrant to a profession.

[Rexmons]

i know what it's like to go hungry, so now i can never be full.

[lookout123]

One reason medical care in Mexico and other third world countries is less expensive is that the standard of living is so much lower. I don't think the doctors have to worry about malpractice to the extent they do in a first world country, either.

That is kind of the point, these are American doctors who live in America, paying American living expenses. They drive across the border daily to go to work. They charge significantly less than they would have to if they were just north of the border because they don't have to pay exorbitant malpractice coverage and they work on a direct payment method.

As far as what they are paid, let me ask you: would you rather go to a doctor who is paid well, or one who is just squeaking by?

$150-200K/year isn't that much money when you consider the supply demand issue. You also might want to factor in the cost of servicing their student loans, too. The new guy at the dentist's office is currently sitting on $225,000 in student loans. Someone who takes on that debt isn't going to step out into a $50-60K job.

$150K seems like big money(and it's not peanuts), but consider this, car sales and mortgage sales make that. It's not that big a number any more.

[Shawnee123]

All of that makes really good sense. But, at least in my town, you don't see very many doctors who don't live in the biggest mansions, drive the nicest cars, belong to the Country Club, attend the nicest charity balls, etc. I guess I've always assumed once they got past all they had to shell out to get where they are, things were pretty good. I don't think about factoring in all that overhead.

Anyway, most of them have my utmost respect!

[theotherguy]

Some can afford that. However, I know two doctors who live WAY beyond their means. I think it is living up to the assumption that all docs are rich.

[lookout123]

most of the docs i know are living on the edge. they are living in a manner consistent with what everyone else thinks is normal for a doctor. there is usually a lot of debt backing up that pretty stuff. the cash flow can be immense, but so can be the cost of doing business.

there are exceptions obviously.