Cellar Shooters

Bullitt · 09-09-2008, 12:05 AM

I'm looking at you Merc and UG and whoever else.

Stag Arms Model 3.

Thoughts? Planning on getting into rifle target shooting, always loved trap shooting with a 12gauge but I'm more interested in grouping shots at distance and moving on to "tactical" exercises. Interested in distances 50yds and out to start. Or should I take the plunge and buy a separate upper and lower and build the thing myself.

elSicomoro · 09-09-2008, 12:08 AM

Paging Mr. Slang and Ms. Wolf...

zippyt · 09-09-2008, 12:19 AM

safari arms has some nice choices Right out of the box

xoxoxoBruce · 09-09-2008, 12:43 AM

You're gonna shoot your eye out.

Urbane Guerrilla · 09-09-2008, 01:22 AM

Oh, Bruce, really!

Okay, so Bullitt likes Eugene Stoner's direct gas action. Within about 350-400 meters seems to be the 5.56mm round's strength for fine target shooting. Its military effective range is considered to be 450.

And he's scoping the critter. Conventional wisdom is lower-magnification scopes would be the optical sight for tactical if you're scoping. Otherwise, an electro-optical thing like an Aimpoint, for tactical shooting.

Getting upper and lower halves becomes an exercise in gunsmithing and trying to do gunsmithing pretty much better than anybody else, if you're going to actually achieve a contest-winning target rifle. This is a whole 'nother skillset from picking the thing up and shooting straight. Well, if you've got that kind of shop, you know better than I do how you'd go about it.

If I had that kind of gunsmithing shop and skill and was looking to step up thataway, I'd get the whole rifle first, shoot with that a good lot, and then get the upper and lower receiver, impressively accurate barrel and desirable bolt and trigger groups, and whatever whizbang buffer is being touted -- the second rifle, assembled per my personal tweaks. More money, but more guns too.

Bullitt · 09-09-2008, 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You're gonna shoot your eye out.

"It's just an eye. The gods saw fit to bless me with a spare."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Oh, Bruce, really!

Okay, so Bullitt likes Eugene Stoner's direct gas action. Within about 350-400 meters seems to be the 5.56mm round's strength for fine target shooting. Its military effective range is considered to be 450.

And he's scoping the critter. Conventional wisdom is lower-magnification scopes would be the optical sight for tactical if you're scoping. Otherwise, an electro-optical thing like an Aimpoint, for tactical shooting.

Getting upper and lower halves becomes an exercise in gunsmithing and trying to do gunsmithing pretty much better than anybody else, if you're going to actually achieve a contest-winning target rifle. This is a whole 'nother skillset from picking the thing up and shooting straight. Well, if you've got that kind of shop, you know better than I do how you'd go about it.

If I had that kind of gunsmithing shop and skill and was looking to step up thataway, I'd get the whole rifle first, shoot with that a good lot, and then get the upper and lower receiver, impressively accurate barrel and desirable bolt and trigger groups, and whatever whizbang buffer is being touted -- the second rifle, assembled per my personal tweaks. More money, but more guns too.

I'm thinking of starting scoping, get used to the rifle and its quirks and then try slapping on a red-dot and doing the tactical thing.

My limited but building knowledge is coming from ar15.com, where they made it out to be not too difficult to assemble your own weapon from scratch. I don't have any gunsmithing materials in my house, so that seems out of the question now. Last person to own a gun in my family was my great-grandfather in WWI.

What do you personally prefer shooting UG? Gun, caliber, etc.

Clodfobble · 09-09-2008, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt

"It's just an eye. The gods saw fit to bless me with a spare."

And hey, half-price discount on that LASIK surgery!

lookout123 · 09-09-2008, 12:14 PM

i love it when threads merge.

Griff · 09-09-2008, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sycamore

Paging Mr. Slang and Ms. Wolf...

Yep, actual shooters will give you first hand info.

Happy Monkey · 09-09-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You're gonna shoot your eye out.

I actually was shot in the eye with a BB gun when working at a Scout camp. Luckily, it was a riccochet, so I didn't have to rely on my spare for more than a couple hours.

Sheldonrs · 09-09-2008, 05:14 PM

Not what I was expecting or hoping for when i saw the title of this thread.

regular.joe · 09-09-2008, 05:23 PM

Me personally I don't like the stock set up or the length of the barrel on that Stag for target shooting.

I've shot competitively at the Army Small Arms competition, the Inter service Match, and the National Match. I continue to shoot EIC matches, we are able to shoot up to 4 in any calendar year. I'm not sure what to recommend, I have been duly challenged shooting the service rifle. There are a few brands that make a match service rifle that does pretty well out of the box. Rock River and Bushmaster comes to mind off the top of my head, but there are more. Google match service rifle. You will be forced to shoot iron sights for competition, this will teach you proper shooting technique, I think this is better to learn before shooting with optics.

The Civilian Marksmanship Program, or CMP, hold competitions all over the states as does the NRA. Competition distances are 200, 300, and 600 yards. 70 grain 5.56 rounds, with a match rifle are very accurate out to 600 yards. (550 m) Although I've done fairly well with a "rack" rifle at the same distance with 55 grain rounds. You will also need to look into a good leather sling, spotting scope, a shooting jacket, and some gloves if you want to be competitive down the line. These are not necessary to start out, but they will certainly help. Especially the sling, don't skimp. Some kind of "shooting stool" will also make life easier on the range.

If you do want to get into target shooting with the service style rifle, let me know and I can send you some info on wind, weather and ballistics. You will need to learn some simple math, and how to think in mils. Or fractions of a degree. The circles on a target used in target shooting are set up so that you can quickly and effectivly figure out how many mils up/down, left/right to adjust for wind, weather, lighting etc...

regular.joe · 09-10-2008, 10:49 AM

Damn, too late to edit. When I said mils in the earlier post, I meant minutes of angle, and fractions of minutes of angle. Usually .25 and .5, to full minutes. It takes a little getting used to, but the math is pretty easy.

wolf · 09-10-2008, 10:56 AM

I'm your go-to-girl for pistols, but rifles are not my area of expertise. I have heard very good things about Anschutz and Sako.

kerosene · 09-11-2008, 11:06 AM

I like this thread.

I had never shot a gun (besides a pellet gun and a few squirt guns) until Labor Day weekend. My husband, who has been shooting them all his life, bought a 12 gauge the week before and we took it up to the cabin in the mountains to try it out. I will say that my opinion about guns has changed so much since he taught me how to use it. Now I am very excited to learn more about different kinds of guns and how to use them. Thanks for posting this thread, Bullitt.

09-09-2008, 12:05 AM	#1
Bullitt This is a fully functional babe lair Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 2,324	Cellar Shooters I'm looking at you Merc and UG and whoever else. Stag Arms Model 3. Thoughts? Planning on getting into rifle target shooting, always loved trap shooting with a 12gauge but I'm more interested in grouping shots at distance and moving on to "tactical" exercises. Interested in distances 50yds and out to start. Or should I take the plunge and buy a separate upper and lower and build the thing myself. __________________ Kiss my white Irish ass.

09-09-2008, 12:19 AM	#3
zippyt LONG LIVE KING ZIPPY! per Feetz Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Arkansas Posts: 7,661	safari arms has some nice choices Right out of the box __________________ "Success is getting what you want. Happiness is wanting what you get. " Brother Dave Gardner

09-09-2008, 12:43 AM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	You're gonna shoot your eye out. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

09-09-2008, 01:22 AM	#5
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Oh, Bruce, really! Okay, so Bullitt likes Eugene Stoner's direct gas action. Within about 350-400 meters seems to be the 5.56mm round's strength for fine target shooting. Its military effective range is considered to be 450. And he's scoping the critter. Conventional wisdom is lower-magnification scopes would be the optical sight for tactical if you're scoping. Otherwise, an electro-optical thing like an Aimpoint, for tactical shooting. Getting upper and lower halves becomes an exercise in gunsmithing and trying to do gunsmithing pretty much better than anybody else, if you're going to actually achieve a contest-winning target rifle. This is a whole 'nother skillset from picking the thing up and shooting straight. Well, if you've got that kind of shop, you know better than I do how you'd go about it. If I had that kind of gunsmithing shop and skill and was looking to step up thataway, I'd get the whole rifle first, shoot with that a good lot, and then get the upper and lower receiver, impressively accurate barrel and desirable bolt and trigger groups, and whatever whizbang buffer is being touted -- the second rifle, assembled per my personal tweaks. More money, but more guns too. __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

09-09-2008, 12:14 PM	#8
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	i love it when threads merge. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

09-09-2008, 12:08 AM	#2
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Paging Mr. Slang and Ms. Wolf...

09-09-2008, 05:14 PM	#11
Sheldonrs Master Dwellar Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 4,412	Not what I was expecting or hoping for when i saw the title of this thread. __________________ Laugh and the world laughs with you; cry and the world laughs AT you.

09-09-2008, 05:23 PM	#12
regular.joe Старый сержант Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women. Posts: 1,464	Me personally I don't like the stock set up or the length of the barrel on that Stag for target shooting. I've shot competitively at the Army Small Arms competition, the Inter service Match, and the National Match. I continue to shoot EIC matches, we are able to shoot up to 4 in any calendar year. I'm not sure what to recommend, I have been duly challenged shooting the service rifle. There are a few brands that make a match service rifle that does pretty well out of the box. Rock River and Bushmaster comes to mind off the top of my head, but there are more. Google match service rifle. You will be forced to shoot iron sights for competition, this will teach you proper shooting technique, I think this is better to learn before shooting with optics. The Civilian Marksmanship Program, or CMP, hold competitions all over the states as does the NRA. Competition distances are 200, 300, and 600 yards. 70 grain 5.56 rounds, with a match rifle are very accurate out to 600 yards. (550 m) Although I've done fairly well with a "rack" rifle at the same distance with 55 grain rounds. You will also need to look into a good leather sling, spotting scope, a shooting jacket, and some gloves if you want to be competitive down the line. These are not necessary to start out, but they will certainly help. Especially the sling, don't skimp. Some kind of "shooting stool" will also make life easier on the range. If you do want to get into target shooting with the service style rifle, let me know and I can send you some info on wind, weather and ballistics. You will need to learn some simple math, and how to think in mils. Or fractions of a degree. The circles on a target used in target shooting are set up so that you can quickly and effectivly figure out how many mils up/down, left/right to adjust for wind, weather, lighting etc... __________________ Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.

09-10-2008, 10:49 AM	#13
regular.joe Старый сержант Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women. Posts: 1,464	Damn, too late to edit. When I said mils in the earlier post, I meant minutes of angle, and fractions of minutes of angle. Usually .25 and .5, to full minutes. It takes a little getting used to, but the math is pretty easy. __________________ Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.

09-10-2008, 10:56 AM	#14
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I'm your go-to-girl for pistols, but rifles are not my area of expertise. I have heard very good things about Anschutz and Sako. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

09-11-2008, 11:06 AM	#15
kerosene Touring the facilities Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The plains of Colorado Posts: 3,476	I like this thread. I had never shot a gun (besides a pellet gun and a few squirt guns) until Labor Day weekend. My husband, who has been shooting them all his life, bought a 12 gauge the week before and we took it up to the cabin in the mountains to try it out. I will say that my opinion about guns has changed so much since he taught me how to use it. Now I am very excited to learn more about different kinds of guns and how to use them. Thanks for posting this thread, Bullitt.

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